[nabs-l] friends

Tue Nov 4 16:56:51 UTC 2008

Cindy-I think your points are extremely important. There is the difference
between interdependent and dependent. We are all interdependent and carrying
your weight and sharing is not a burden, taking without giving back or
expecting only help or some special privilege above and beyond is not
equality and strains friendship and is burdensome pretty quickly. Friends
are able to view each other as equals, once feeling sorry for another slips
into it, a feeling of superiority slips in to it no matter how subtle, and
you no longer have true friendship in my opinion. Thanks Cindy- 

Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:22 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends

I understand where you guys are coming from in that you dont want to be a
burden, but what i have found is that most of the time, people dont mind,
but i always offer to do something in return, i always give gas money, and
if someone helps me with shopping or something then i might buy their lunch.
a lot of times my friends say that they dont need that, but i still think
that its important to do, because you dont want to use them. the
relationship has to give both ways. Ss for doing things by yourself, i think
its important to first try to do something by yourself rather than to
initially rely on friends, because even though they probably care about you,
your needs shouldn't become their number one concern. That beign said, there
are definitely situations in which i am a lot more successful when someone
is around, but i dont think that the presence of someone else should detour
you from trying something. those are just my opinions.
Cindy

--- On Tue, 11/4/08, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 1:29 AM
> Hi all,
> 
> This is such an interesting topic and it is great to see
> such a lively
> discussion!
> 
> I can definitely relate to the difficulties that many of
> you describe
> with friendship and dating in the sighted world. In my
> experience the
> problem goes both ways-some sighted people may keep us at
> arm's
> length, but at least as much awkwardness can come from our
> own fears
> of rejection or of trusting sighted acquaintances and
> opening up to
> them. I often remind myself that I probably think about my
> blindness
> in a social interaction much more than my sighted partner
> actually
> does. As for dating, while I  agree that tensions between
> blind and
> sighted can compound the tensions that can exist between
> the sexes
> already, we also have to remember that thousands of blind
> people (in
> the NFB and out) have found happy long-term romantic
> relationships,
> both with blind  and sighted partners. So although
> blindness can
> present challenges, it by no means sets us up for
> loneliness. Many of
> the most prominent figures in the NFB are happily married,
> and I
> figure that if they can do it, so can I.
> 
> And speaking of other blind people, I can't overstate
> the value and
> joy that can come with building friendships with others who
> are
> blind-for people of all ages. I think becoming friends
> with other
> blind people where the normal tensions and awkwardness
> between blind
> and sighted are absent is a great way to develop
> self-confidence and
> practice other social skills, like listening, building
> trust, managing
> conflicts and becoming a leader. Of course, this
> doesn't mean that we
> should segregate from the sighted world and only associate
> with other
> blind people-we can and should build connections with all
> kinds of
> people around us and not restrict ourselves to just the
> blind or just
> the sighted. But getting to know other blind people can be
> a great
> support against the challenges of being regarded as
> second-class
> citizens, and together we can work to share strategies for
> solving
> blindness-related problems, as the NFB has clearly
> demonstrated.
> 
> In Phoenix where I grew  up, we had a local nonprofit
> organization
> that sponsored weekend programs and summer day camps for
> blind kids.
> These programs were nothing like the NFB training centers
> in terms of
> philosophy, but through my participation I was lucky enough
> to meet
> other blind kids around my age who were, and still are,
> some of my
> closest friends. I first started meeting these kids at the
> end of
> elementary school. Though I have been blind all my life and
> never
> thought blindness was really a big deal, it was around that
> time when
> I really started to understand that "blindness
> mattered" to other
> sighted kids and adults. In the sighted world around me (at
> school,
> Hebrew school or with my family) I was generally quiet and
> well-behaved and focused on my schoolwork. But when I got
> with my
> blind peers, I would get talkative, joke around, flirt with
> boys, and
> even help mastermind  some good-natured pranks on the other
> kids and
> teachers. I still remember running around on the playground
> at the day
> camp and feeling totally free-not being told that I had
> to sit out the
> action because I was blind, not being tethered to some
> kid's elbow
> when I wanted to go somewhere, and being teased in a fun
> way by the
> other kids instead of just being treated politely or
> ignored. Since
> the blind kids around me treated me like their equal, I was
> free to be
> myself, reveal my insecurities, take social risks and
> eventually
> assert myself as a leader in the group. I still feel the
> same sense of
> freedom today when I meet new "partners in crime"
> in the NFB (although
> my prankster days are, mostly, behind me!) Today most of my
> close
> friends happen to be blind-and yet, despite my
> introverted tendencies
> and worries about not fitting in with the sighted, I have
> been able to
> take some big social risks. I spent five months in a
> foreign country
> where I knew nobody, sighted or blind, for example. I
> seriously doubt
> that I would have had the confidence or the social skill to
> do that or
> to become active in groups on campus if I had not had those
> early deep
> connections with blind peers and the ones I have today in
> the NFB.
> 
> As ambitious blind students who strive for the best, we can
> sit and
> criticize the indecent behavior going on at our chapter
> meetings. We
> can be part of the solution by giving our blind friends
> feedback about
> their social behavior. Or we can go further-by reaching
> out to the
> blind community around us and seeking out mentors, friends
> and
> mentees. Each of us has a lot to learn from others around
> us who are
> blind, and a lot to teach them as well. That is the beauty
> of our
> organization, and I hope we can all make the most of it.
> 
> Cheers
> Arielle
> 
> 
> On 11/4/08, Sarah Jevnikar
> <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
> > Yeah for sure. I still struggle with athletics.
> It's a tough one - I'll
> > think on it and see what I come up with.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Heather Rasmussen
> > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:10 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
> >
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:09:09 -0800> From:
> harryhogue at yahoo.com> To:
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
> freinds> > Great topic, guys.  I
> > have never had really close friends, either.  Een in
> college, I neer
> > developed close relationships--more like people I talk
> to during class, etc.
> > Part of that is my personality--I get really quiet in
> a group and jsut
> > naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of people
> (like one or two ther
> > people).  I have joined the chess club--yes I am a
> nerd lol--and really like
> > it, and get along great with those folks.  I go to the
> Spanish table once a
> > weekand do other things--so I make a concerted effort.
>  It is good to know
> > that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers from
> these feelings.>  > I
> > would loe to get out there and be able to play
> soccer--the real thing, not
> > some weird modified ersion with sighted people
> helping.  Does anyone else
> > feel this way?  If this is better addressed either off
> list or on the sports
> > and rec list, that's fine.  Just thinking of
> extracurricular  activities
> > that I would like to participate in but can't. 
> Soemthign we don't really
> > say--but when we say that people can participate
> equally--I don't know that
> > it is entirely true when it comes to sports.  Granted
> I've never done it the
> > way they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of
> a totally blind person
> > to bowl and get the same experience out of it with out
> sighted help that
> > diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and
> the other adapted
> > sports.  Dont' mean to go off on something I
> don't know much about, but I
> > think it does fit in well with our discussion of
> social integration and
> > making friends, etc.  Thoughts?>  > Harry>
> > > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth
> > <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:> >
> From: Beth
> > <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>> Subject: Re:
> [nabs-l] freinds> To: "National
> > Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>> Date:
> > Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM> > You are
> right, Carey. The people in
> > question could be too busy.> However, may I point
> out that my younger
> > brother, eighteen years old,> already has a
> girlfriend and runs around
> > everywhere with her? I am> envious of every sighted
> person who has a
> > significant other, and you> know why he has her?
> Because he can immitate
> > appropriate social> skills. I am a firm believer in
> having good social
> > skills as a> prerequisite to scoring with the
> oppoite sex. The key to
> > winning a> successful date and keeping that
> significant other is having
> > good> social skills. I have a young man in college
> here at FSU who is a>
> > friend, but he understands unlike the previous people
> I've dealt with,> the
> > nature of blindness and its accessories because his
> mom had a> blind
> > student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this
> issue and it> just makes
> > sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a
> friend. I> admit I did a
> > few things he didn't like, but then he admitted
> he> wouldn't give up.> Beth>
> >> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer
> <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:> > I would just
> > like to add to Beth and Hope,> >> > Jordan
> has not had many social offers
> > himself. And he is well liked and> this> > is
> key-respected- in class and in
> > the extra curricular groups. I have> found> >
> that blind people maybe
> > especially need to be very pro-active on this. I>
> > told him once that to
> > eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to>
> go> > out, he needed to
> > call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star,>
> people> > were not going
> > to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a
> sighted> > person, I can
> > tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are
> because> I> > my self
> > kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I
> invited them> > over, I
> > remembered the birthday card. I have friends from
> grade school> > still, but
> > most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is
> often> that> > way,
> > some people are better at it. I never care or make
> anyone feel it> >
> > mattered if they haven't called me for three
> years, I don't even> listen to>
> >> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how
> are you now, wanna do> lunch on> >
> > Thursday and catch up?> >> > I know that
> there are people who will avoid the
> > blindness, most are though> > just unsure. But I
> think it can affect fro
> > your end too, in the can you> walk> > the
> walk you talk totally? Like that
> > little girl I mentioned, IF your> skill> >
> level and independence is not
> > truly equal that can effect. But on the> other>
> > hand kids know Jordan is
> > equal to them in school, I think sometimes they>
> > don't realize he is
> > equally independent out of school too. On the>
> other> > hand, he is often
> > too busy to have any free time to go out, and these
> days> I> > know a lot of
> > students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are
> high> > GPA, working
> > jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they
> don't> have> > time much
> > either. So I think they aren't calling like he
> isn't,> just too> > busy!> >>
> >>> >> > Carrie Gilmer, President>
> > National Organization of Parents of
> > Blind Children> > A Division of the National
> Federation of the Blind> > NFB
> > National Center: >
> _______________________________________________> nabs-l
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> > I can sympathize with all you people who don't
> have any friends.  I don't
> > have any either.  It's kind of my fault, because,
> like Karry's son, I'm so
> > busy with school that I really don't do much else
> right now.  Still, it's
> > kind of depressing sometimes when I hear all these kid
> talk about what they
> > did last weekend, or what they'll do Friday
> afternoon together after school.
> > Then there's the problem that I go to a small
> school where anyone who didn't
> > grow there, and tinks like the do, never really fits
> in.  It gets really
> > lonely sometimes; some days are worse than others. 
> I've had several people
> > tell me that it gets better in college, because you
> meet more people who
> > think like you do.  Any thoughts on that?
> > Heather
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > When your life is on the go-take your life with you.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
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