[nabs-l] Blind man sues Wienerschnitzel over run-in with tree

Mon Aug 16 22:41:29 UTC 2010

Hello Rob,
Do you believe that women and blacks have achieved their improved success in 
employment without force, and this improvement in employment has resulted 
from the employers who would not hire them in the past, simply now changing 
their minds and deciding they were wrong previously?  That is not my 
understanding of history.  Also, I don't remember the good old days pre ADA 
when employers welcomed blind people with open arms and then deciding that 
as a result of the ADA that they are now afraid that they will be sued if 
they hire blind people.  As a lawyer I would advise them that they are at 
greater risk if they don't hire than if they do.  Also, why would you be 
sued if you are obeying the law?  I have been a lawyer since 1991 and I have 
never seen someone be in trouble for following the law.  My clients find 
themselves in difficulty because they didn't follow the law, not because 
they did.  This is usually because they didn't like the particular law in 
question, and they thought they could get away with not following it, just 
like speeders think they can drive faster than the posted speed limit.  I 
guess our experiences in life are very different.
Best,
Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Spangler" <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind man sues Wienerschnitzel over run-in with tree

> The problem with this view is that we as blind people are labeled as
> walking lawsuits.  My ability to get a job has been severely limited
> by such laws as the ADA which, FORCE, companies to comply.  who would
> want to hire someone who has a larger chance of potentially sueing
> them?  I sure wouldn't.  I would wish to hire the person who is going
> to cost my business less and will allow me to operate much more
> efficiently.  that being said, I am able to walk into any business
> with all of the equipment that I will need to conduct the job without
> asking the company to buy it for me.  the utilization of force never
> works; it will cause companies to look for ways around hiring us.
>
> On 8/15/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>> I'm not Ashley, but I can tell you what echolation is.
>>
>> Just like light, sound bounces off of, or is absorbed by, objects and
>> then bounces back into our ears. Echolocation takes advantage of this
>> in the same way sight does. The main difference is that, for the most
>> part, there is an outside light source apart from the seer. In this
>> case, the listener generally produces the sound that will bounce off of
>> objects. Cane taps are usually sufficient. The quality of the sound
>> tells the listener if it has been absorbed or bounced back and to what
>> extent. Those who get good at it can even tell the shapes of the
>> objects they listen to, where they are exactly located, and how far
>> away they are. A listener can also gain this kind of information by
>> using outside sound sources and listening to how those sounds bounce
>> off of the objects they're close to.
>>
>> The average echolocation user can generally tell where trees and bushes
>> are, people, large buildings, glass windows and doors, metalic objects
>> like cars, curbs, and other very noticeable things like that. Some of
>> us can tell smaller objects such as street poles, planters, and other
>> things of the sort. Echolocation takes practice. I had to study it in
>> Louisiana (I studied under Roland Allen, who is quite adept at
>> echolocation). I would love to study under Dan Kish, the king of
>> echolocation, however.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>>> Hello Ashley,
>>> What is echolocation?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dennis
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 3:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind man sues Wienerschnitzel over run-in with 
>>> tree
>>
>>
>>>> Hi Anmol and all,
>>>> No don't place your hand in front at all times, but yes I think its
>>>> reasonable to place an arm up or something to protect you when you are
>>>> coming to an obstacle like a branch.  You can perceive this through
>>>> echolocation or if its familiar you remember the overhanging obstacle.
>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Anmol Bhatia" <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind man sues Wienerschnitzel over run-in with
>>>> tree
>>
>>
>>>>> Good points Sean!
>>>>> To who ever said to keep your hand in frunt to prevent the branch from
>>>>> hitting you, we do not when a tree is in frunt and the branches are
>>>>> hanging out so does this mean we should walk around with our hand in
>>>>> frunt at all times?
>>>>> Anmol
>>
>>
>>>>> --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> From: Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind man sues Wienerschnitzel over run-in with
>>>>>> tree
>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 4:22 PM
>>>>>> Thank you Dennis!
>>
>>>>>> You said everything I wanted to say, and then some.
>>
>>>>>> If the man was injured and incurred costs from the injury,
>>>>>> he has a case. A
>>>>>> sighted person could sue in the circumstances described
>>>>>> where the branch is
>>>>>> not illuminated at night. The limb causing injury is
>>>>>> foreseeable, and
>>>>>> somebody was negligent.
>>
>>>>>> A few other thoughts brought up by the discussion so far:
>>
>>>>>> The idea that I should always have my hand in front of my
>>>>>> face is
>>>>>> ridiculous. If it works for you, I'm not knocking it, but
>>>>>> it certainly isn't
>>>>>> a requirement of safe travel.
>>
>>>>>> Walking at a somewhat reduced pace in unfamiliar areas
>>>>>> seems reasonable. I
>>>>>> do it, and I don't think that exercising some caution
>>>>>> indicates that I have
>>>>>> subpar travel skills. Once you are familiar with an area,
>>>>>> it is certainly
>>>>>> easier to navigate it more quickly.
>>
>>>>>> Kirt is right in that this maybe shouldn't be news, but
>>>>>> neither should a
>>>>>> blind person graduating from a university, and I see that
>>>>>> kind of thing
>>>>>> written up frequently. Blindness is different, and makes a
>>>>>> story more
>>>>>> interesting to the general public. Not saying I like it,
>>>>>> just saying it's
>>>>>> so.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>> account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
> Arts and Sciences
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net 