[nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Domonique Lawless dlawless86 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 4 20:06:10 UTC 2010 

Mark,
I think your  idea regarding the non profit organizations taking the
brunt of the cost for development of AT products has some merit. It is
slightly unrealistic  though because without  charging some kind of
fee there won't be any money to use for research and development. I
agree that the fees A T companies charge us  are exorbitant but I
think finding  a middle ground between  no cost and  charging us an
arm and a leg for products is a better solution. If you drop the price
entirely then you lose the stability of the product because companies
have no resources or desire to develop it further.

Domonique

On 2/4/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Well, when it comes to SEROTEK products, they include a remote training
> and support system where other users can access your computer remotely
> (only with your permission) and help you learn or troubleshoot any
> time. Also, SEROTEK often does technology talks meant to demonstrate
> their products and the products of other companies, but the additional
> benefit is that you get some training while you listen. And really, you
> won't find better tech support anywhere. So to answer your question,
> the traing is peer powered, and the technology itself is easy to learn
> so you don't spend forever training.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
>
> Original message:
>> I am not a conservative politically, but I am a pragmatist.  As you say in
>> this message, the more expensive products like Jaws and Window eyes may
>> have
>> some advantages that make  these screen readers easier to use or more
>> efficient than the cheaper versions.  With time, we can hope  to encourage
>> work towards universal design, as many have mentioned in this discussion.
>> Just one quick classic  example of universal design  may be the Prodigy
>> blood glucose meter, which costs under forty dollars and which the NFB has
>> praised as the best product for a blind diabetic to use.   The Prodigy
>> came
>> out as a new product about four years ago.Before the prodigy,  a large
>> number of blind diabetics were using  a special adaptive product called
>> "Voice Mates" by Accucheck, it was the only talking meter  that was very
>> feasible to use without vision for some time.  Yet this specialized  Voice
>> Mates device cost over five hundred dollars and does not have the same
>> ease
>> of use as the cheaper Prodigy.  Yet the Prodigy was designed and
>> manufactured for the mass, say sighted market. But it was seen as a
>> desireable feature for the sighted to hear their blood sugar read out
>> loud.
>> Now of course, the market for diabetic devices is far  from a small niche
>> market, since America has now in excess of sixteen million diabetics.  My
>> point is that even though we  as consumers of blindness products are a
>> small
>> market, we can work to encourage universal designs and utilize alternative
>> products such as Seroteck.    But I feel this  is a long term strategy,
>> and
>> waiting for the great day may leave many blind people without the
>> assistive
>> technology they need for months and years.  It sometimes eludes sighted
>> people what a necessity what we may call a talking computer system is.  It
>> simply gives one access to a quality of life impossible without assistive
>> technology.  It seems to me in the short run, a strategy we might use is
>> to
>> find non govermental money  from charitable organizations or
>> philanthropists
>> to buy existing technology such as Pac Mates or Braille Notes for our
>> consumers, while we are  working  for changes in the pricing structure or
>> the marketplace to bring down costs for blindness gear over a time.    I
>> think this could be done on perhaps a cost sharing basis, with someone
>> always bearing a part of the cost of his or her equipment.   I would like
>> to
>> see the costs of training and repair also be considered In another post,
>> someone details the many marvelous things available through Seroteck.  But
>> if you have been out of the loop about technology because you could not
>> afford it, who will teach or tune you in to this stuff?  Peer help should
>> maybe be organized, or affordable training subsidized, this is just a
>> thought..  In my case, I do have funding from the Department of Rehab in
>> california and I have received many helpful pieces of adaptive equipment,
>> not without a struggle at times, and been denied for many things.I also am
>> lucky to be able, at least currently to pay out of pocket for some things
>> myself. Next week, someone will be coming to my home to repair my Open
>> Book,
>> which just has some mysterious glitch all of a sudden.  It will cost the
>> state agency or DOR one hundred and sixty dollars for two hours of  repair
>> of my equipment.  This would be steep for many to pay themselves.  It
>> seems
>> people can be in a catch 22 situation, they need technology to get ahead,
>> but they cannot afford technology.  But like Jo Orozco asks , what are the
>> dimensions of the need we have out  there? Would it be embarrassing for an
>> individual to write in to this list to say he or she is not able to afford
>> technology or training?  What of someone who has a case closed for
>> whatever
>> reason, can such a person come forward and ask for help without feeling
>> humiliated?  I throw out all this since I know this is a highly
>> intelligent,
>> creative list and solutions can be found  probably if we work together..
>> I
>> am not a business major, alas, but this change in the marketplace may take
>> some time, I could be wrong.  So  in the meantime why not tap into
>> charitable foundations that could buy current popular technology for
>> blind
>> individuals such as Jaws, Window Eyes, Pac mate, Braille Note, Open Book,
>> and so on.  One advantage of these familiar products is that one is more
>> likely to find peers who can help them learn  or trouble shoot this
>> technology.  I can easily contact many people, or at least I think I
>> could,
>> who are Window Eyes users if I need help, since this screen reader has a
>> large user base.    Having non profits or private charitable foundations
>> help could be done on a  cost sharing basis perhaps, with someone always
>> paying in part for  his or her equipment.  I have thought that non
>> governmental money from non profit organizations or donations from  large
>> corporations would liberate some from the  sometimes daunting Voc Rehab
>> bureaucracy.  What about approaching such entities as the Bill and Melinda
>> Gates Foundation?  Or even someone like Dan Googin? There also may be
>> grants
>> available from  certain agencies in the public or private sectorI am not
>> aware of; although I  am planning to  read up on grant writing..  Forgive
>> me
>> for my brainstorming  style here, these are just some preliminary
>> thoughts.
>> And again, this  issue is complex, and I am so glad we are discusssing
>> this.
>> I would be happy to work on any campaign  that develops.  Best regards,
>> GinnieOriginal Message -----
>> From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>> Apple is really the leader in built in accessibility, and yes, I think
>>> that is the only way we're going to see a decrease in what we pay to use
>>> technology. If mainstream devices start coming with built in
>>> accessibility
>>> features, that would be a preferable solution. To answer your question,
>>> if
>>> a huge company like Freedom Scientific has 80 percent of the market
>>> share,
>>> and people are paying $800 for their screen reader...why would they lower
>>> their price? They may eventually go to a payment plan, but they really
>>> have no incentive business wise to do so. Blind people may be pissed at
>>> how much things cost...but at the end of the day, the companies still get
>>> the money. If we want a change, we'll have to stop using their products.
>>> The rub is that they're good products, and probably in many ways more
>>> efficient than the cheaper options.
>
>>> Just some thoughts,
>>> Briley
>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Aziza wrote:
>
>>>> My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
>>>> If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a
>>>> standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I
>>>> mean, that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is
>>>> really expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of
>>>> people the price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of
>>>> people using this stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?
>
>>>> Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a
>>>> look at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their
>>>> general pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen
>>>> reader capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we
>>>> don't need to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included
>>>> wouldn't it cost less?
>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software
>>>>> comparable
>>>>> to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a
>>>>> donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This
>>>>> would solve the problem without having to rely on government.
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply
>>>>>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a
>>>>>> dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can
>>>>>> cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't
>>>>>> exist
>>>>>> as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the
>>>>>> fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is
>>>>>> horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck?
>>>>>> Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any
>>>>>> stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>
>>>>>> Briley
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it
>>>>>>> without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that
>>>>>>> companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying
>>>>>>> $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is
>>>>>>> ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with
>>>>>>> mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more
>>>>>>> than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS
>>>>>>> Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>
>>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance
>>>>>>>> from your
>>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance
>>>>>>>> after you
>>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense
>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>>>>>>> afford
>>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>>>>>>>> attention to
>>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.
>>>>>>>> Yet, it
>>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a
>>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
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>
>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
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>
>
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