[nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
Jewel S.
herekittykat2 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 25 00:25:31 UTC 2010
DSB told me that they would get either a Braille notetaker OR a laptop
with a refreshable Braille display, but not both.
~Jewel
On 7/24/10, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jewel,
>
> I wonder if you can ask for a laptop with JAWS, a Braille notetaker,
> and a scanner. That's the setup I use and I've been very pleased with
> it-electronic books and notes can be read on the Braille Note's
> Braille display, while the laptop can be used for the third-party
> applications you described. I tried bringing a Braille embosser to
> college my first year, and I found myself never using it since I had
> Braille access on my notetaker and, as you mention, Brailling
> textbooks yourself is quite labor-intensive.
>
> Best of luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 7/24/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for that clarification. I requested either a Braille notetaker
>> (such as the PacMate or BrailleNote) or a laptop with a refreshable
>> Braille display. The person who did the initial assessment thought a
>> laptop and refreshable Braille display would be a better set-up than a
>> Braille notetaker for flexibility, ease of use, and usability with
>> third-party programs such as my DaybyDay planning calendar. I agreed
>> with this assessment, though if they gave me a Braille notetaker
>> instead of the laptop-Braille display combination, I would not turn it
>> down and would work with it I think about equally as well. My concern
>> is that if I get a laptop, I must have a way to read my books and
>> notes in Braille. The embosser will help with this, but putting my
>> textbooks and notes all in hard-copy Braille is not feasible, I think,
>> and a waste of paper. But I simply cannot listen to long segments of
>> audio, especially when I'm supposed to be listening to the professor
>> (I know I can read the book ahead of time, but in my Spanish class, at
>> least, we will be doing a lot of reading aloud).
>>
>> I'm hoping to be on my way with getting this resolved Monday. It's
>> really frustrating and I'm impatient about the weekend.
>>
>> I do appreciate everyone's input on this. It has given me many things
>> to think about and some encouragement that I should be getting what I
>> need for school.
>>
>> ~Jewel
>>
>> On 7/24/10, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I think what I meant by "luxury" is the large Braille display that
>>> connects to a computer. While these are ideal, I think you can get
>>> almost the same degree of access with a portable Braille notetaker
>>> with a Braille display, such as a Braille Note or Pac Mate, and I
>>> believe portable notetakers are also cheaper than Braille display
>>> computer hookups. Jewel, I don't remember if you had requested both a
>>> Braille notetaker and a Braille display in your original equipment
>>> setup, but if you find yourself needing to negotiate, the Braille
>>> notetaker will give you lots of Braille functionality whether you
>>> choose to read your books on it or listen and take notes in Braille,
>>> as I do.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 7/23/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thank you for this resource. I wil lread it; it looks good. I can
>>>> quote it in my complaints, I'm sure.
>>>>
>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>
>>>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi again,
>>>>>
>>>>> This resource is long, but really highlights Voc Rehab's
>>>>> responsibilities
>>>>> with specific RSA situations. This should help you a great deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nls.org/vrron.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Briley
>>>>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Jewel S. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is my feelings also. I do not think the refreshable Braille
>>>>>> display is a luxury, but an essential tool for my learning. I am a
>>>>>> visual and tactile learner, and have a lot of trouble learning by
>>>>>> audio teaching only. I often have to re-read what JAWS has read to me
>>>>>> several times, and have to rewind audio books if I have the least
>>>>>> distraction (such as someone making a comment to me or the radio or tv
>>>>>> or pretty much any background noise can distract me).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A quick update. They want to do an accessment (laptop or PDA). I'm
>>>>>> going to ask about justifying just getting the laptop, as I think
>>>>>> it'll be the easiest way to go (more compatibility with programs, more
>>>>>> connection with other students, less expensive for DSB, more versatile
>>>>>> in future programs that I purchase). The supervisor was not in today;
>>>>>> I will speak to him on Monday and get this all straightened out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/23/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just wanted to offer that I don't agree that a Braille display is a
>>>>>>> "luxury", and that you shouldn't push for Voc Rehab to provide it. Is
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> print a "luxury", for sighted students? No. If Braille is your
>>>>>>> preferred
>>>>>>> reading medium, you shouldn't be forced to just get by with only
>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> that is not how you best learn. They would never send a sighted
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> to college and say, "Good luck getting by with no print books." Voc
>>>>>>> Rehab
>>>>>>> can provide this for you, and moving up the chain of command will
>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>> the quickest results. Every regional office has specific complaint
>>>>>>> procedures which you can request in writing from your councilor's
>>>>>>> manager.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>> Briley
>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 4:44 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Jewel and all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is an old story that I've heard way too many times from
>>>>>>>> students.
>>>>>>>> Your counselor's actions (or non-actions) are ridiculous and
>>>>>>>> definitely need to be addressed with her supervisor(s). In the
>>>>>>>> meantime, though, I think it's important to come up with a plan B
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> doesn't involve DSB at all, at least while you're waiting. A few
>>>>>>>> ideas:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. With rehab, I'd focus on getting the computer and scanner. The
>>>>>>>> refreshable Braille display and embosser are nice, but they're
>>>>>>>> luxuries, not necessities, in my opinion. Asking for just a couple
>>>>>>>> pieces of equipment rather than the whole gamut may be less
>>>>>>>> complicated/bureaucratic.
>>>>>>>> 2. Does your school have an office for blind/disabled students? If
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> they very well might have equipment for loan, like computers, and
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> should have public-access scanners that you can walk in and use. If
>>>>>>>> not, find out if there's anywhere else on campus (like the bookstore
>>>>>>>> or library) where you can borrow or rent a computer for low or no
>>>>>>>> cost. Perhaps family members or friends might have extra computers
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> can borrow? Once you have the computer, you should be able to
>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>> a free open-source screen reader to use with it.
>>>>>>>> 2. The NFB has a technology loan program and your NFB affiliate
>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>> have one too. Call the NFB Braille and Technology Center at
>>>>>>>> 410-659-9314 for details. Of course borrowing equipment for free is
>>>>>>>> better than racking up interest, but it could be a last-resort,
>>>>>>>> temporary option.
>>>>>>>> 3. If you can't get a portable computer, see if any of the public
>>>>>>>> computers on your campus are accessible (all Mac's are out of the
>>>>>>>> box). What you may need to do in a pinch is use a voice recorder in
>>>>>>>> class and then use the public computer for assignments.
>>>>>>>> 4. Remember that
>>>>>>>> www.rfbd.org
>>>>>>>> provides books in audio format, and
>>>>>>>> www.bookshare.org
>>>>>>>> provides books for free in a text format that you can read on a
>>>>>>>> regular computer (either the public computer or a rented one).
>>>>>>>> 5. Don't forget that readers are low-tech and relatively cheap
>>>>>>>> (usually $7 per hour) and if your school has a community service
>>>>>>>> club,
>>>>>>>> you might be able to find volunteer readers. If rehab is
>>>>>>>> uncooperative, your school (either the disability resource center or
>>>>>>>> the department of your major) may be willing to help pay for
>>>>>>>> readers,
>>>>>>>> at least initially while you wait for equipment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In short, while you should definitely nag rehab to get you what you
>>>>>>>> need (especially the laptop, scanner, and perhaps an audio book
>>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>>> like a Stream), rehab isn't, and shouldn't be, your only option. I
>>>>>>>> think the only piece of equipment that's really mission-critical is
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> computer, and that can be either a personal computer or a public
>>>>>>>> computer. Even your local public library might have a public
>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>> you can use. I'd recommend staying in your classes if at all
>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>> Textbooks can be read with readers (readers can even be students in
>>>>>>>> your classes, who have to read the books anyway), or with a public
>>>>>>>> scanner (which might be available in the library or DRC).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best of luck and please keep us posted on your progress.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/22/10, William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I would have to say that I agree with Joe on many of the points he
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>> Also, keep some things “off record” with your councilor. I am
>>>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the suggestions of you purchasing a net book that you provided in
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> email. Remember the following approach: don’t ask, don’t tell or
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> give any additional information than requested.
>>>>>>>>> In addition, always copy a supervisor when you’re documenting so
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> context
>>>>>>>>> of what you discuss is not altered or misrepresented at a later
>>>>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>>> Finally, investigate whether or not your local independent living
>>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> advocates that will speak on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>> Note: some colleges and universities have laptops or net books that
>>>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>>>> students can reserve from there DSS office for use during class.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>>> to readers or reading services, some organizations for the blind as
>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> community centers have people from the community who volunteer who
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> assist you. In addition, check with your college or university to
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you can post an add requesting for volunteers to assist you when
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the essence and your accommodations/equipment is not available. I
>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> following since it is a reality. Note: I do not want to discourage
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> scare
>>>>>>>>> you; however, throughout your college career, you will learn and
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> you will need to liquidate all avenues since many times you will
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> faulty services and accommodations while meeting important
>>>>>>>>> deadlines
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> other student. You will need to be strong and always be your own
>>>>>>>>> advocate
>>>>>>>>> while never losing focus with your agenda.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 11:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jewel,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I see online that North Carolina just started a new fiscal
>>>>>>>>>> year. This is
>>>>>>>>>> bad, because this is when agencies can afford to lapse a
>>>>>>>>>> little. If I were
>>>>>>>>>> you, and taking your budget into consideration, this is my
>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>> recommendation:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Take Justin's suggestion and go straight to the director
>>>>>>>>>> of that field
>>>>>>>>>> office. It's not your job to ease this counselor into
>>>>>>>>>> her new position.
>>>>>>>>>> Your first priority is getting what you need to be ready
>>>>>>>>>> for school. Put
>>>>>>>>>> your communications to the director in writing. Say
>>>>>>>>>> in your first e-mail
>>>>>>>>>> that you will follow up via telephone in a few days to talk
>>>>>>>>>> about what can
>>>>>>>>>> be done. Later, after your phone call, send another
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail summarizing what
>>>>>>>>>> was talked about. Always keep a written record of
>>>>>>>>>> your communications. In
>>>>>>>>>> the letter you should give a brief summary of the events to
>>>>>>>>>> this point, but
>>>>>>>>>> I would spend more time listing the equipment you need and
>>>>>>>>>> a good
>>>>>>>>>> justification for why you need them. This may
>>>>>>>>>> somewhat minimize the need
>>>>>>>>>> for an assessment if you can give concrete reasons for why
>>>>>>>>>> the products are
>>>>>>>>>> required. Also, rank your products in order of most
>>>>>>>>>> important. The Victor
>>>>>>>>>> Stream, for example, may be a necessity, but it could
>>>>>>>>>> probably go near or at
>>>>>>>>>> the bottom since your top priority is the ability to take
>>>>>>>>>> notes in class.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Locate the individual or office that handles technology
>>>>>>>>>> assessments. The
>>>>>>>>>> more people you have inquiring into your case, the better,
>>>>>>>>>> and even if they
>>>>>>>>>> say they need to hear from your counselor, when your
>>>>>>>>>> counselor calls the
>>>>>>>>>> people will be familiar with you and have more of an
>>>>>>>>>> incentive to act.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Talk to your NFB affiliate president. He or she
>>>>>>>>>> may know of someone
>>>>>>>>>> working in the agency who can look into your case.
>>>>>>>>>> The affiliate should
>>>>>>>>>> also prove to be a good advocate on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Locate your nearest Lions Club. They may be able
>>>>>>>>>> to step in and help
>>>>>>>>>> with the cost of a netbook. If you can get that, you
>>>>>>>>>> can use one of the
>>>>>>>>>> free or reasonably priced screen readers while you wait for
>>>>>>>>>> your other
>>>>>>>>>> technology to arrive. The main thing is to get you
>>>>>>>>>> something for the first
>>>>>>>>>> day of class, and I think your Lions Club or Rotary Club
>>>>>>>>>> should be able to
>>>>>>>>>> generate $300 on your behalf.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is, at least, a start. I'm in a bit of a rush
>>>>>>>>>> but can offer more later
>>>>>>>>>> if you're still in a bind. Hopefully others will
>>>>>>>>>> chime in as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best of luck,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>>>>>>>>>> their sleeves,
>>>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at
>>>>>>>>>> all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Jewel S.
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:06 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] DSB delaying needed equipment
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am having serious issues with DSB here in North Carolina.
>>>>>>>>>> I begin
>>>>>>>>>> classes August 16, and have been working toward getting
>>>>>>>>>> some needed
>>>>>>>>>> equipment. This equipment is a netbook with JAWS, a
>>>>>>>>>> refreshable
>>>>>>>>>> Braille display, a VictorStream Reader, a Juliette
>>>>>>>>>> embosser, a
>>>>>>>>>> scanner, OpenBook scanning program and Dusxbury
>>>>>>>>>> (spelling?), and JAWS
>>>>>>>>>> for my home computer. I have been working very hard on my
>>>>>>>>>> side to get
>>>>>>>>>> this done in time for classes. However, I was reassigned
>>>>>>>>>> recently to a
>>>>>>>>>> new VR counselor (by new, I mean green...this is her first
>>>>>>>>>> position).
>>>>>>>>>> She did not even know who the assessment person *was*, let
>>>>>>>>>> alone how
>>>>>>>>>> to do an assessment referral, so after I saw one person for
>>>>>>>>>> review of
>>>>>>>>>> my home computer and basic needs, she did nothing with
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> information, despite him having stated that I needed an
>>>>>>>>>> assessment
>>>>>>>>>> with a particular computer teacher. It was not until I
>>>>>>>>>> asked him what
>>>>>>>>>> the next step was again that he said that my counselor
>>>>>>>>>> should have set
>>>>>>>>>> up the assessment (when I had talked to him the first time,
>>>>>>>>>> he had
>>>>>>>>>> said that my VR counselor would see the referral sent and I
>>>>>>>>>> needed to
>>>>>>>>>> just wait for the referral to go through).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now, because of my counselor's delay in getting the
>>>>>>>>>> referral done, the
>>>>>>>>>> paperwork has not even been submitted for my equipment. At
>>>>>>>>>> first, they
>>>>>>>>>> told me it would take two to three weeks to get the
>>>>>>>>>> equipment. Then
>>>>>>>>>> they said one month. Now they are saying that it could take
>>>>>>>>>> up to two
>>>>>>>>>> months!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Classes start August 16, and I do not have any of the
>>>>>>>>>> equipment I
>>>>>>>>>> need. The only method of note-taking I have (other than
>>>>>>>>>> getting a
>>>>>>>>>> notetaker to take notes for me, which I'd rather not) is my
>>>>>>>>>> slate and
>>>>>>>>>> stylus. With my physical problems, I can only use a slate
>>>>>>>>>> for a few
>>>>>>>>>> lines at a time before my wrist and arm begin to hurt very
>>>>>>>>>> badly, so I
>>>>>>>>>> don't see that as a possibility at all. I do not even have
>>>>>>>>>> a voice
>>>>>>>>>> recorder, though I am considering whether I have the funds
>>>>>>>>>> to purchase
>>>>>>>>>> one myself (I am on a very tight budget these days).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have suggested the solution of renting a laptop until my
>>>>>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>>>>>> comes in. However, my counselor seems to have taken that to
>>>>>>>>>> mean that
>>>>>>>>>> I am willing to buy a used laptop on my own. She has
>>>>>>>>>> suggested places
>>>>>>>>>> to purchase used laptops and said she will look into it
>>>>>>>>>> also. When I
>>>>>>>>>> asked her whether this would take the place of the laptop
>>>>>>>>>> promised me
>>>>>>>>>> by DSB, she didn't answer directly but told me that the
>>>>>>>>>> laptop I would
>>>>>>>>>> purchase would last me throughout my curriculum. But if
>>>>>>>>>> it's used, how
>>>>>>>>>> can she be so sure? And how does she expect me to pay for
>>>>>>>>>> such a
>>>>>>>>>> laptop?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is this appropriate action on the behlaf of my counselor?
>>>>>>>>>> SWhat should
>>>>>>>>>> I expect to happen? If she is not doing things properly,
>>>>>>>>>> who should I
>>>>>>>>>> bring this up with?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I said, classes start in a few weeks. I do not have a
>>>>>>>>>> way to record
>>>>>>>>>> the classes, type notes, read my books in class, or
>>>>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>>>> worksheets in class. I will basically be stuck relying on
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> students to take notes for me, read exercises to me, and
>>>>>>>>>> will not be
>>>>>>>>>> able to participate when the class reads the books. I might
>>>>>>>>>> as well
>>>>>>>>>> not even attend class, for all I will be able to do! From
>>>>>>>>>> what DSB is
>>>>>>>>>> telling me, it will be halfway through the semester before
>>>>>>>>>> I get any
>>>>>>>>>> of my needed equipment. Is the renting of a laptop a
>>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>>>> accommodation while I wait, or should I drop these classes
>>>>>>>>>> and wait
>>>>>>>>>> until next semester? I will not be able to participate
>>>>>>>>>> appropriately
>>>>>>>>>> in class without even a laptop, and my grades will be
>>>>>>>>>> drastically
>>>>>>>>>> effected by this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any advice, please?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>>>> Jewel Shuping
>>>>>>>>>> Wake Tech Community College
>>>>>>>>>> Raleigh, NC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Website:
>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone: 602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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