[nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History

Wed Jun 23 15:47:36 UTC 2010

(story below of being asked to leave a plane due to a safety breifing issue)

I don't think the blind should be categorically denied access to the
exit rows, and I agree with Steve Jacobson's comments.  It would be
interesting to talk with Steve about his experiences in the 80's and
90's.

The airline and exit row issue was one of the main things that got me
interested in the NFB.

There is another less known about rule that was adopted by the FAA
initially at the same time that the initial ACAA Part 382 regulations
were adopted by DOT.  This little known about rule concerns certain
requirements that could imply that a blind person must receive an
individual safety briefing, on top of the general safety briefing that
is issued to all passengers.

We in the federation object to any sort of requirement that the blind
be subjected to some sort of additional compulsory safety briefing on
the basis of blindness.  If a blind person believes some kind of extra
breifing would be helpful to them, they can request it.  However, the
blind should not be required to receive an extra briefing soley based
on blindness.

Imagine if you will, if a blind person flew 3 times per week.  Believe
it or not, there are people that fly 3 times per week.  If you look at
this safety briefing notion, imagine then that in theory the blind
person that flys three times per week would have to receive some kind
of "extra" "special" briefing that nobody else is required to receive.
 In fact,  the blind person that flys three times per week most likely
knows the particulars of the aircraft more than 95% of travelers.  It
is completely arbitrary and capricious to require blind people to
receive these special briefings soley based on ones blindness.

This discussion is also not just an academic one, or one just about
theories and philosophy, or some kind of table top exercise.

I fly on average about 2 to 4 times a month.  Fortunately, usually,
there is not a major issue with the safety briefings.

However, I took a flight on Monday June 21st where initially
immediately when I boarded, the flight attendant indicated that I
would have to receive a special briefing.  Where as with other
passengers, the flight attendants greeted them as they boarded, I was
initially "greeted," with the noted statement.

I told the flight attendant repeatedly that I did not want or need a
"special briefing," and he kept insisting that his manual said that he
was required by the FAA to provide such a breifing.

I asked for a CRO, Complaint Resolution Official, and then at least 1
agent and 2 supervisors became involved.

The agents and supervisors told the flight attendant that I was a
frequent flyer, and didn't needd a "special breifing."

Then one of the agents said that they would volunteer to fly on the
flight with me if this would make the flight attendant feel more
comfortable.  I told them that while this may have been well intended,
that it was not a good or solid solution to the problem.  I told them
I still wanted to speak to a CRO myself.

Now mind you all this was going on in the middle of a moderately full
flight, and again, at this point I was in my seat.

Then a CRO came to my seat, and said that I was to take my things and
come with her off the plane, and that they were going to rebook me on
another flight.  I asked her if they were going to compensate me, and
she said absolutely they would compensate me.  She did actually do
this in pretty much as quiet and as discretely a way as she could
have.

I don't know exactly what they would have done if I were to have told
them I was not going to get off the plane.  However, several of our
brothers and sisters in the NFB do have stories of telling "them" that
they would not get off the plane.

I chose to get off the plane because the flight attendant made me feel
uncomfortable and unwelcome, because I was confident these gate agents
were in fact going to do whatever they could do to help me, and
because in some wayys I did not want to find out what would happen if
I told them I would not get off.  But in other ways, I was curious
about it.

You have to remember also that, the way these FAA and DOT regulations
are written, because NFB did not get what we wanted, there may be
something the airline and flight attendant could use to try to say
that we qre required to receive the special briefing.  I am
researching the particulars of the applicable regulations.

Once we got off the plane, I told the gate agents I wanted them to
rebook me on another airline to a city closer to where I was going,
and they obliged without any objections or fuss or trouble.

Also for my compensation they issued a roundtrip flight voucher which
is this carriers usual compensation for a denied boarding situation.
Again they issued the compensation without any fuss or difficulty.

The next day, on my return flight, I ran in to the supervisor who had
asked me to leave the plane.  She said that they were going to have a
conference call with the station managers, the flight attendants duty
manager, and others and that likely "some action will be taken against
the flight attendant."

The CRO supervisor had the wherewithall to say that while the "manual"
might say that you always brief a blind passenger separately, that no
manual can account for every individual situation.

In conclusion it also really occurs to me that most blind people need
to learn more about the nuts and bolts of how airlines work, how to
deal with CRO's, etc.  The stories I hear are just crazy, eg, blind
people saying they were required to use a wheelchair or other odd
things.

If you  learn how the airlines work, learn how to work with your CRO,
if they get to know you at the airport, you really often can have a
good experience.

Working with a CRO, as I described it in an email yesterday to my
sister, is sort of a dance of carrots and sticks and give and take.

In general, the law does not require the airline or the CRO to make
your travel more comfortable, pleasant or for them to compensate you
or really work with you.  The regulations have a lot of requirements,
but a lot of them are administrative.  And if any dollars are to be
paid out, its usually fines a carrier would pay to the government.
That said, if the CRO wants to help you, they really can do a lot for
you, but again typically they aren't required too.  If they wanted to
make your life miserable, they could do that too...this would be
especially rellevant if you are a very frequent flyer.

There is also nothing to say you as the passenger have to make life
easy for the airline.  Your free to file a DOT complaint whenever they
screw up.  Almost always if a situation escallates to the point of
needing a CRO, they will screw up on some technicality of the
regulation and usually more than one.  When you file a compalint with
DOT it gets tagged against the carrier, and DOT completes an
investigation similar to that of when a member of congress makes an
inquiry to the agency.  Its a lot of paperwork for the airline and for
DOT, and there are very specific ways they have to handle the
complaint.  That said, if your satisfied that the CRO resolved an
issue for you, you don't have to file a DOT complaint.

Hopefully this gives people a few things to think about.  And we
really should do a seminar on how to deal with the airlines on a
really practical in the field sense and not just in theory.  We should
have some very frequent flyers and maybe a real CRO put the seminar
on.

Best,
Mika

On 5/27/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is also important to note that everyone else who sits in those seats is
> only instructed to give it up if they "feel they are not willing or able to
> complete these tasks." Why should we not be permitted to use our own
> judgment on this matter? We should have to prove it to someone else? I
> should think not.
>
> Briley
> On May 27, 2010, at 4:58 AM, Jedi wrote:
>
>> Antonio,
>>
>> It's kind of ridiculous that I should have to prove my capacity to open
>> the door to anyone much less you when sighted people don't have to. That's
>> the issue, isn't it? As you have already stated, there's no guarantee that
>> all sighted people are truly capable of opening the door, but it's enough
>> to know that they believe they can by virtue of the intelligence to figure
>> it out. Lest anyone think that a sighted person would be able to figure
>> out how to open the door by means of reading visual instructions, I should
>> point out that not all sighted people can understand diagrams of that sort
>> much less utilize them. Just a thought. If the cabin is dark or smoky,
>> visual instructions won't help anyone.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>>> Hi,
>>
>>> Jedi, I wonder how you find yourself more capable to open the door, and
>>> the
>>> slide ramp better than many people you know if you haven't actually had
>>> the
>>> experience of, thus the ability to learn to deal with the equipment
>>> before.
>>
>>> Just as there are capable, and not so capable sighted people, many of
>>> whom
>>> can not open the door and the slide, there are many blind people who are
>>> not
>>> capable of performing the duties.
>>
>>> I for one don't mind, and don't care to sit in exit sitting, as long as I
>>> can sit in a place more or less determined by me. That would mean I would
>>> not choose to sit in a bulk head seat.
>>
>>> If the airline can pre-screen for likely liabilities, IE. blind passenger
>>> who can't see the handle for the ramp, they will. And if I can be seated
>>> in
>>> a reasonable fashion, and get to my destination without snag, I am fine,
>>> and
>>> feel treated fairly for the services the airline offers.
>>
>>
>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>
>>> Student, Western Governors University
>>> (617) 744-9716
>>> Eastern time zone
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History
>>
>>
>>>> You make some very good points here.  I don't think that some are
>>>> realizing how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit
>>>> in an exit row.  One thing I
>>>> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we
>>>> were
>>>> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that
>>>> would have not
>>>> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been
>>>> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row.  That would
>>>> have excluded us from
>>>> quite a number of seats on some planes.
>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>>>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote:
>>
>>>>> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter
>>>>> can't have given a better suggestion!
>>
>>>>> Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines
>>>>> think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency
>>>>> exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else,
>>>>> and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For
>>>>> those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and
>>>>> worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as
>>>>> fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding
>>>>> or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with
>>>>> the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and
>>>>> the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less
>>>>> competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk.
>>>>> Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we
>>>>> cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how
>>>>> society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society
>>>>> thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately
>>>>> quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated
>>>>> arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus
>>>>> our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability
>>>>> in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from
>>>>> White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent.
>>>>> That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that
>>>>> battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope
>>>>> we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many
>>>>> sighted persons I know.
>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Jedi
>>
>>
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Hello Peter,
>>
>>>>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent
>>>>>> example
>>>>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win.
>>
>>>>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous.
>>
>>>>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would
>>>>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip.
>>
>>>>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily
>>>>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO.
>>
>>
>>>>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Briley and everyone,
>>
>>>>>>>     If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching
>>>>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure
>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the
>>>>>>> kind of
>>>>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by
>>>>>>> airline
>>>>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the
>>>>>>> bulkhead
>>>>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and
>>>>>>> post-board,
>>>>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the
>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of
>>>>>>> discrimination
>>>>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our
>>>>>>> guard
>>>>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers.
>>
>>>>>>>     We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for
>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency
>>>>>>> exit
>>>>>>> row;
>>>>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several
>>>>>>> protest
>>>>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these
>>>>>>> activities.
>>>>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large
>>>>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too
>>>>>>> often.
>>>>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986,
>>>>>>> "Sitting
>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these
>>>>>>> struggles
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These
>>>>>>> nabsters
>>>>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and
>>>>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they
>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>> the best.
>>
>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Briley Pollard"<brileyp at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for
>>>>>>> forgetting
>>>>>>> blindteen
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Valory,
>>
>>>>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her
>>>>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media.
>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us.
>>>>>>> Media
>>>>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not
>>>>>>> acceptable.
>>
>>>>>>> Briley
>>
>>
>>>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> I agree.  Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and
>>>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions.
>>
>>>>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such
>>>>>>>> judgement
>>>>>>>> calls.  We can only say what we would do in that situation, and
>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems
>>>>>>>> unfair
>>>>>>>> to point fingers.
>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she
>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>> sighted help in everything.
>>
>>>>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> well as a sense of endependance.   Not everyone has done so.
>>
>>>>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes.
>>
>>>>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance.
>>
>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all,
>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation
>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>> quickly.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> sometimes I don't.
>>
>>>>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she
>>>>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here.
>>
>>>>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> cope.
>>
>>>>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise
>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> that be? just  get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and
>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the
>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010
>>
>>>>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver
>>>>>>>>>> Island
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after
>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> April 7
>>>>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal
>>>>>>>>>> shut.
>>>>>>>>>> Ten
>>>>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an
>>>>>>>>>> unscheduled
>>>>>>>>>> check of the plane.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline
>>>>>>>>>> voucher
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of
>>>>>>>>>> news
>>>>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville,
>>>>>>>>>> Fla.,
>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>> sorry."
>>
>>
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