[nabs-l] Capta

Thu Oct 21 04:16:36 UTC 2010

Dear listers,
  Part of me is hesitant to throw my hat in to the captcha ring.
Again.  But here goes.
  I know that I, being totally blind, can solve any captcha either
with webvisum, selona, or the audio captchas out there.  I realize
that doesn't work for everyone, especially the deaf-blind community.
But without screen readers, computers aren't accessible to blind
people.  Does that mean off-the-shelf computers need to have
accessibility built in?  I don't think so, although apple's made the
idea viable.
  I think the same principle applies with captchas.  Were I
deaf-blind, I don't see why I couldn't use webvisum or salona, and get
the same information I do now with jaws and audio captchas.
Especially if I had a braille display.  To me, (and I say this knowing
many disagree and I respect that), that's no different than a blind
person using a screen reader to use an otherwise inaccessible computer
system.  But that's just my take on it, and it's just an opinion.
And, who knows, I might be seeing it all wrong.
  Respectfully,
Kirt

On 10/20/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I think that this conversation is very interesting. However, before I say
> anymore, I want to emphasize that what follows is only my personal opinions.
>
>
>
> I agree that whatever security measure that is used needs to be accessible
> all disabilities. However, I find one fundamental flaw in the idea of making
> captcha accessible to screen readers. The original intent of captcha is to
> prevent automated systems from tricking the system. Although a screen reader
> in and of itself cannot fill out a form, someone who really knew what he/she
> was doing could harness this capability Rather than trying to figure which a
> way to make captcha accessible without defeating the purpose of captcha, I
> think that it would be better to try to find another security feature.
>
>
>
> I do not think that whoever designed captcha purposefully made them
> inaccessible. Rather, the designer(s) was (were) simply unaware of such
> issues.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> Let's write a resolution for it.  I'll volunteer to help write it with you
>> and anyone else interested.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>>    All the more the reason to make them usable by all disabled
>> individuals
>> including the deaf-blind.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "autTeal Bloodwortho" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>
>>
>> but rather they are increasing the usage of them on frequently
>> used social
>> networking sites, even those that are generally blind friendly.
>>
>>        -Teal
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>
>>
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>
>>>    And if you're blind and deaf you really have a problem with these
>>> things. Much has been done to create audio alternatives but nothing is
>>> being
>>> done to make these CAPTCHAs make their information available
>> tactually.
>>> I've
>>> said it before and will say it again. If we can build an interface to
>>> allow
>>> a blind person to drive a car independently we should be able
>> to create a
>>> way for screen readers to read CAPTCHA information and
>> reproduce it both
>>> audibly and tactually so those with severe hearing
>> impairments can have
>>> full
>>> access to Web sites where these things are used. In light of
>> our work with
>>> Virginia Tech the excuse that the technology to accomplish this isn't
>>> there
>>> doesn't wash with me. The same is also true of the blind
>> driver interface
>>> but we're moving full speed ahead on that one. We should be
>> doing the same
>>> with improving the usability of CAPTCHAS.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:07 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>>
>>> It is really annoying. The idea is that a computer cannot
>> hack it because
>>> the print is not recognizable by OCR and the speech is to
>> unintelligible
>>> to
>>> be recognized. It seems to work fine for sighted people; I
>> think that the
>>> most tries that a sighted person ever had to do on it was 3, but I
>>> couldn't
>>> understand the speech if I listened to it 1000000 times. There is
>>> discussion
>>> about alternative methods of security, such as writing out a
>> question that
>>> only has one answer but that a computer would not be able to
>> understand.
>>> For
>>> example:
>>> what is 1+1
>>> and
>>> what is one plus one
>>> mean the same thing to a human and would result in
>>> 2
>>> or two
>>> but a computer probably has less of a chance of understanding
>> the writing
>>> than it would understanding the math.
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rob" <rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National
>> Association
>>> of
>>> Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>
>>>
>>>> Captcha is a visual utility implemented for security - to tell the
>>>> difference between a human & a computer. It is not
>> accessible by screen
>>>> readers, hence the assistance website.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 8:09 PM, "Ashley  Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is CAPTA?  Maybe the advocacy program for your state.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini"
>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Capta
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know the information for the capta assistance website?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Nicole
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