[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Koby Cox
kobycox at gmail.com
Sun Jun 19 00:14:35 UTC 2011
Jamey,
Can you email me off list?
Koby.
sent from my iphone
On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just need to say, in response to the argument that an absentee voting
> system would discourage attendance at national convention, that voting has
> never been a factor that got me to convention. The conventions have a lot to
> offer to newcomers and to old members, far beyond voting at your particular
> divisions business meeting. Hell, if that was the only strong reason I had
> for attending, I probably wouldn't bother. I don't think an absentee voting
> system will deter attendance from people who would have been interested in
> voting to begin with and actually have the resources to attend convention in
> that particular year. When I ask other students why they're breaking the
> bank to go to convention, no one has ever replied "uh, so I can vote of
> course!". It's always some other reason first and foremost. So in terms of
> deminishing the value of convention attendance, I don't think you have
> anything to worry about. Attendance wouldn't change. Sure, you can cast a
> vote as an absentee, but I can't get the full experience, you can't speak on
> issues and have your voice heard. You can't hear or meet the candidates face
> to face as easily, or at all... you're an absentee, and that has its
> consequences in everything. The availability of an absentee voting system in
> our US government doesn't seem to prevent people who actually intend to vote
> and can get out to the polls from going, because it's sometimes not as
> convenient. It's only convenient if you really CAN'T manage to get out to
> the polls. And individuals who wouldn't have gone out to vote anyway also
> don't generally submit absentee votes. If anything, I think this would
> simply be a matter of working out logistics and deadlines, which wouldn't be
> too daunting a task for the right tech team. Lets not avoid change for the
> sake of tradition. Such a system would, at its core, result in stronger,
> more meaningful elections if done properly.
> George, I support your idea, and offer you my assistance in promoting it. I
> will be attending convention this year in Orlando. Poke me off list if
> there's anything I can do.
> -Jamie
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> Many of the cogent points have already been discussed here. However,
>> there are a couple which I'd like to cover in greater detail.
>>
>> As someone who attended National convention several years ago because
>> of the extremely hard and diligent work of my chapter President to
>> procure financial aid, I can vouch that what a great deal of the
>> membership are saying about getting some of your expenses covered in
>> this manner is definitely doable, especially if you begin planning in
>> advance.
>>
>> As evidence of why this measure would be an absolute nightmare I
>> submit exhibit A: the 2000 Presidential election, and Exhibit B: the
>> 2004 Presidential election.
>>
>> I am not attempting to begin a political discussion here, but due to
>> some voter fraud and logistics issues, those elections were a
>> nightmare no matter which side you were on.
>>
>> I don't like how this amendment would discourage people from gaining
>> the full experience of the NFB through the communal aspects showcased
>> to such great effect through convention. If all we have to do to
>> influence policy decisions is press a button, why would we, especially
>> those of us who struggle financially, attempt to find the funds for
>> convention.
>>
>> In closing, there's a factor I think very few of those in favor of
>> this amendment are considering: stage presence. We want people who
>> can not only articulately and passionately represent the NFB in
>> writing, but in person, too. Extremely articulate letter writers may
>> become rather tongue-tied and shy in person...any of you who know me
>> well can vouch for the truth of that one. So, to my mind, to make the
>> best possible decision, we need written platforms such as those posted
>> to the list over the last few days, and face to face interaction,
>> which we will gain at convention.
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 6/18/11, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> The fact that the NFB has "alot of funds" is not the issue. The reality
>> is
>>> that we all know that National Convention happens once a year around the
>>> July 4TH holiday and if we want to attend, we need to plan well in
>>> advance. Also, if we need financial assistance then we need to find out
>>> from our state affiliate what kind of financial assistance is
>> available.
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:29 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>
>>> This is the NFB we're talking about here, they've got a lot of funds!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To
>> learn
>>> more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on
>>> this link to their national Web site:
>>> www.campabilities.org.
>>>
>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>> the
>>> ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more
>>> and to contribute:
>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:21:04 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>
>>> If you actually read my response, you'd see I addressed the issues bring
>>> up.. Of course I understand the financial burden, which I mentioned.
>> But
>>> there is a lot of assistance available, and not just from the NFB itself.
>>> If people want to come, funding can be found. I'm in no way suggesting
>>> that people who can't attend aren't federationists or don't care about
>> the
>>> organization. But proxy voting is not allowed for some very good
>> reasons.
>>> Perhaps there could be an Absent-T system instituted similar to what the
>>> government has for legitimate circumstances.
>>> But, I'm not sure we as an organization have the funds or the resources
>>> necessary to take on that undertaking. It is an idea though.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Briley
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>
>>> Right,
>>> but tell me,
>>> does everyone have the money to spend around $1,00 on convention costs?
>>>
>>> You specially as a student should know that.
>>>
>>> And as for me,
>>> I have so far been a strong supporter of the federation, yet only have
>>> gone to one national convention.
>>> So if I don't show up this year are you suggesting that I am not a "true
>>> federationist?" Because that's where your language is pointing towards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm hesitant to even weigh in on this debate since most relevant
>> arguments
>>> have already been made. However, it is important to note that being
>>> present at the Nabs meeting every year indicates a certain amount of
>>> investment in the organization. I know convention is expensive, but
>> there
>>> are multiple ways to procure funding outside of paying for everything
>>> yourself. I know that as students we don't have much expendable income.
>>> However, the yearly meeting of the organization as a whole and the
>> division
>>> shows the membership and is a chance for us as members to make our wants
>>> and needs known by how we vote. If one cares enough about the
>> organization
>>> to make that kind of time investment, then one has earned that right to
>>> participate in organizational positions and decisions.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Briley
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>
>>> Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose names
>> I
>>> happen to know as possible. No, you뭗 need to manage passwords and data
>>> security. There would be issues such as validity and integrity of the
>>> ballot (who뭩 observing to ensure the votes are not tampered with, etc.?)
>>>
>>> What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS
>> elections
>>> from being held at convention to being held online.
>>> That means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>>> runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected board
>>> members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as best
>> they
>>> can.
>>>
>>> If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
>>> Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote? This would be
>> a
>>> fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could be
>>> exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB. Without
>>> becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such individuals
>> exist.
>>>
>>> It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body
>> to
>>> the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech. I뭢 not sure you뭨e
>>> going to find support for that amongst Federationists at
>> large뾭articularly
>>> since in order to do so you must first convince those Federationists who
>>> will be attending Convention because it is a policy-making body they wish
>>> to be part of that it should no longer be so.
>>>
>>> You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two non-
>>> consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn뭪 want to see what naturally
>>> comes from the application of your suggestion.
>>> To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or
>> not.
>>> I for one am not willing to give that up.
>>>
>>> That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>>> elsewhere, I will not be voting. I am not a student anymore, as I said,
>>> and NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>> So would I.
>>>
>>> And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a
>> database
>>> can easily be developed as well with some php.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>>
>>> A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
>>> I would be willing to help with that.
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>
>>> Marsha:
>>> This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to
>>> be in charge of developing some authentication method.
>>> I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way
>>> such as having to enter with your name, and the site
>>> disqualifying you when you enter your vote if it sees that you're
>>> present.
>>> This is where the database of contact information would come in
>>> handy.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>
>>> In theory this is a good suggestion. But lets be realistic
>>> here. This would
>>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes. If the students
>>> were to do
>>> this, the general convention would want this too. Its sad that
>>> those who
>>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be
>>> there,
>>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the
>>> best job
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you
>>> going to
>>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are
>>> going to
>>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular
>>> person
>>> running.
>>>
>>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can
>>> run, not
>>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present?
>>> Different
>>> divisions do this differently.
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Jorge Paez
>>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>
>>> Hello all:
>>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution,
>>> to article
>>> IV.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> Voting
>>>
>>>
>>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at
>>> the
>>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but
>>> who have paid
>>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>>> ASSOCIATION
>>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are
>>> legal and of
>>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of
>>> this
>>> organization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> end of amendment.
>>>
>>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are
>>> to be a
>>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the
>>> Nation's
>>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able
>>> to attend but
>>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and
>>> given the
>>> chance to vote in elections. If not, we are violating our own
>>> constitution
>>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those
>>> members who
>>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain
>>> portion of the
>>> student membership to vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jorge
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>>
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