[nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
Darian Smith
dsmithnfb at gmail.com
Sun Jun 19 01:24:39 UTC 2011
So... I have to tell you that I mistakenly said that we collect dues
at washington seminar in a post that was two days and a thousand
E-mails ago (oops, my bad). Arielle corrected my mis-stated piece of
information and mentioned that Nabs does not Collect dues until
national convention. Arielle mentioned that the five dollars
collected at the anual mid-winter meeting is money used to help
cover the cost of costs associated with the events we put on at
seminar (president's lucjh, and the like).
So, I would like to make this clear that the only time (Yes ladies
and gentelman, nabsters of all ages) that dues are collected is at
national convention, only at that time can you vote, ony at that time
will you be given ballots to vote, and only if dues are paid. This
system is the way that we make sure that only those who are there and
have paid dues truly hold the right to vote.
Voting is but only a small portion of the work that needs to get
done, people have mentioned how one can make their voice heard in the
voting process if they are not going, and that it's self is not a bad
thing. I hope though that each person takes a moment to see what can
they do before elections and after elections to make the
oppertunities and overall expirience for students better. We all
have great ideas on a wide range of topics, and if we took the time
that we all have taken to write here, and put it twards unifying our
voices as blind students, making our divisions stronger, making sure
that accessibility issues are being adressed, that younger students
learn the ropes of how to step out and be confident... I think we
might be getting to something great.
On 6/18/11, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jamey,
> Can you email me off list?
> Koby.
>
> sent from my iphone
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I just need to say, in response to the argument that an absentee voting
>> system would discourage attendance at national convention, that voting has
>> never been a factor that got me to convention. The conventions have a lot
>> to
>> offer to newcomers and to old members, far beyond voting at your
>> particular
>> divisions business meeting. Hell, if that was the only strong reason I had
>> for attending, I probably wouldn't bother. I don't think an absentee
>> voting
>> system will deter attendance from people who would have been interested in
>> voting to begin with and actually have the resources to attend convention
>> in
>> that particular year. When I ask other students why they're breaking the
>> bank to go to convention, no one has ever replied "uh, so I can vote of
>> course!". It's always some other reason first and foremost. So in terms of
>> deminishing the value of convention attendance, I don't think you have
>> anything to worry about. Attendance wouldn't change. Sure, you can cast a
>> vote as an absentee, but I can't get the full experience, you can't speak
>> on
>> issues and have your voice heard. You can't hear or meet the candidates
>> face
>> to face as easily, or at all... you're an absentee, and that has its
>> consequences in everything. The availability of an absentee voting system
>> in
>> our US government doesn't seem to prevent people who actually intend to
>> vote
>> and can get out to the polls from going, because it's sometimes not as
>> convenient. It's only convenient if you really CAN'T manage to get out to
>> the polls. And individuals who wouldn't have gone out to vote anyway also
>> don't generally submit absentee votes. If anything, I think this would
>> simply be a matter of working out logistics and deadlines, which wouldn't
>> be
>> too daunting a task for the right tech team. Lets not avoid change for the
>> sake of tradition. Such a system would, at its core, result in stronger,
>> more meaningful elections if done properly.
>> George, I support your idea, and offer you my assistance in promoting it.
>> I
>> will be attending convention this year in Orlando. Poke me off list if
>> there's anything I can do.
>> -Jamie
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Courtney Stover
>> <liamskitten at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all:
>>>
>>> Many of the cogent points have already been discussed here. However,
>>> there are a couple which I'd like to cover in greater detail.
>>>
>>> As someone who attended National convention several years ago because
>>> of the extremely hard and diligent work of my chapter President to
>>> procure financial aid, I can vouch that what a great deal of the
>>> membership are saying about getting some of your expenses covered in
>>> this manner is definitely doable, especially if you begin planning in
>>> advance.
>>>
>>> As evidence of why this measure would be an absolute nightmare I
>>> submit exhibit A: the 2000 Presidential election, and Exhibit B: the
>>> 2004 Presidential election.
>>>
>>> I am not attempting to begin a political discussion here, but due to
>>> some voter fraud and logistics issues, those elections were a
>>> nightmare no matter which side you were on.
>>>
>>> I don't like how this amendment would discourage people from gaining
>>> the full experience of the NFB through the communal aspects showcased
>>> to such great effect through convention. If all we have to do to
>>> influence policy decisions is press a button, why would we, especially
>>> those of us who struggle financially, attempt to find the funds for
>>> convention.
>>>
>>> In closing, there's a factor I think very few of those in favor of
>>> this amendment are considering: stage presence. We want people who
>>> can not only articulately and passionately represent the NFB in
>>> writing, but in person, too. Extremely articulate letter writers may
>>> become rather tongue-tied and shy in person...any of you who know me
>>> well can vouch for the truth of that one. So, to my mind, to make the
>>> best possible decision, we need written platforms such as those posted
>>> to the list over the last few days, and face to face interaction,
>>> which we will gain at convention.
>>>
>>> Courtney
>>>
>>> On 6/18/11, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> The fact that the NFB has "alot of funds" is not the issue. The reality
>>> is
>>>> that we all know that National Convention happens once a year around the
>>>> July 4TH holiday and if we want to attend, we need to plan well in
>>>> advance. Also, if we need financial assistance then we need to find
>>>> out
>>>> from our state affiliate what kind of financial assistance is
>>> available.
>>>> Tina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:29 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>>
>>>> This is the NFB we're talking about here, they've got a lot of funds!
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To
>>> learn
>>>> more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on
>>>> this link to their national Web site:
>>>> www.campabilities.org.
>>>>
>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>>> the
>>>> ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn
>>>> more
>>>> and to contribute:
>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:21:04 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>>
>>>> If you actually read my response, you'd see I addressed the issues bring
>>>> up.. Of course I understand the financial burden, which I mentioned.
>>> But
>>>> there is a lot of assistance available, and not just from the NFB
>>>> itself.
>>>> If people want to come, funding can be found. I'm in no way suggesting
>>>> that people who can't attend aren't federationists or don't care about
>>> the
>>>> organization. But proxy voting is not allowed for some very good
>>> reasons.
>>>> Perhaps there could be an Absent-T system instituted similar to what the
>>>> government has for legitimate circumstances.
>>>> But, I'm not sure we as an organization have the funds or the resources
>>>> necessary to take on that undertaking. It is an idea though.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Briley
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:14 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Right,
>>>> but tell me,
>>>> does everyone have the money to spend around $1,00 on convention costs?
>>>>
>>>> You specially as a student should know that.
>>>>
>>>> And as for me,
>>>> I have so far been a strong supporter of the federation, yet only have
>>>> gone to one national convention.
>>>> So if I don't show up this year are you suggesting that I am not a "true
>>>> federationist?" Because that's where your language is pointing towards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Briley Pollard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm hesitant to even weigh in on this debate since most relevant
>>> arguments
>>>> have already been made. However, it is important to note that being
>>>> present at the Nabs meeting every year indicates a certain amount of
>>>> investment in the organization. I know convention is expensive, but
>>> there
>>>> are multiple ways to procure funding outside of paying for everything
>>>> yourself. I know that as students we don't have much expendable income.
>>>> However, the yearly meeting of the organization as a whole and the
>>> division
>>>> shows the membership and is a chance for us as members to make our wants
>>>> and needs known by how we vote. If one cares enough about the
>>> organization
>>>> to make that kind of time investment, then one has earned that right to
>>>> participate in organizational positions and decisions.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Briley
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:52 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Right, and I will be sure to cast my vote for as many people whose names
>>> I
>>>> happen to know as possible. No, you뭗 need to manage passwords and data
>>>> security. There would be issues such as validity and integrity of the
>>>> ballot (who뭩 observing to ensure the votes are not tampered with, etc.?)
>>>>
>>>> What you are looking for is not proxy voting, but to change NABS
>>> elections
>>>> from being held at convention to being held online.
>>>> That means the elections process would need to happen (along with any
>>>> runoffs and revotes) prior to convention so that the newly elected board
>>>> members can meet with the old and arrange the transition plan as best
>>> they
>>>> can.
>>>>
>>>> If elections, why not resolutions and other business as well?
>>>> Why would we then send delegates from the states to vote? This would be
>>> a
>>>> fundamental change to the organization as a whole, and one that could be
>>>> exploited by those who have an axe to grind against the NFB. Without
>>>> becoming too confrontational, suffice it to say that such individuals
>>> exist.
>>>>
>>>> It would also degrade our national convention from a policy-making body
>>> to
>>>> the status of a trade show for blind ghetto tech. I뭢 not sure you뭨e
>>>> going to find support for that amongst Federationists at
>>> large뾭articularly
>>>> since in order to do so you must first convince those Federationists who
>>>> will be attending Convention because it is a policy-making body they
>>>> wish
>>>> to be part of that it should no longer be so.
>>>>
>>>> You would not have my support, even though I have only been to two non-
>>>> consecutive conventions now, because I wouldn뭪 want to see what
>>>> naturally
>>>> comes from the application of your suggestion.
>>>> To me, going to convention is ABOUT something, whether I can attend or
>>> not.
>>>> I for one am not willing to give that up.
>>>>
>>>> That said, though I may attend the NABS meeting if I am not needed
>>>> elsewhere, I will not be voting. I am not a student anymore, as I said,
>>>> and NABS policy should IMO be set by those who are.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:54:10PM -0400, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>> So would I.
>>>>
>>>> And, security measures such as comparing someone's name against a
>>> database
>>>> can easily be developed as well with some php.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:41 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A web based system could easily be developed, that's for sure.
>>>> I would be willing to help with that.
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Marsha:
>>>> This is only theory to be aprooved--the web team would have to
>>>> be in charge of developing some authentication method.
>>>> I'm sure we could make sure only absent people vote in some way
>>>> such as having to enter with your name, and the site
>>>> disqualifying you when you enter your vote if it sees that you're
>>>> present.
>>>> This is where the database of contact information would come in
>>>> handy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In theory this is a good suggestion. But lets be realistic
>>>> here. This would
>>>> be a complicated process of tallying the votes. If the students
>>>> were to do
>>>> this, the general convention would want this too. Its sad that
>>>> those who
>>>> can't be there can't vote, but that is where those who can't be
>>>> there,
>>>> should get involved to elect those who they feel would do the
>>>> best job
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> Say if you were to have a online way to take votes, how are you
>>>> going to
>>>> distinguish from those who are really not going to those who are
>>>> going to
>>>> convention but who want to vote and add votes to a particular
>>>> person
>>>> running.
>>>>
>>>> Now correct me someone if I am wrong, isn't it true that you can
>>>> run, not
>>>> necessarily be there, and be elected? Or must you be present?
>>>> Different
>>>> divisions do this differently.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>> Of Jorge Paez
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:57 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] proposition for amendment to constitution
>>>>
>>>> Hello all:
>>>> I want to propose the following amendment to the constitution,
>>>> to article
>>>> IV.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Voting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Due to the fact that there are people who will not be present at
>>>> the
>>>> convention due to issues beyond the membership's control, but
>>>> who have paid
>>>> dues and do therefore, retain their right to vote, the NATIONAL
>>>> ASSOCIATION
>>>> OF THE BLIND shall henceforth recognize
>>>> these members by allowing them to vote, in such methods as are
>>>> legal and of
>>>> good practice, in all elections pertaining to the business of
>>>> this
>>>> organization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> end of amendment.
>>>>
>>>> The defense I put forth for this amendment is simple: if we are
>>>> to be a
>>>> democratic organization, and if we are truly the "voice of the
>>>> Nation's
>>>> blind" we must realize there are students who will not be able
>>>> to attend but
>>>> who have paid dues, and these students must be recognized and
>>>> given the
>>>> chance to vote in elections. If not, we are violating our own
>>>> constitution
>>>> as article IV is doing as of this writing, by eliminating those
>>>> members who
>>>> cannot attend convention, and therein setting only a certain
>>>> portion of the
>>>> student membership to vote.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
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>>>>
>>>
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--
Darian Smith
“My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.”
— Shaquille O'Neal
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