[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Sat May 28 20:09:41 UTC 2011
Mike,
That makes a lot of sense...I find myself agreeing with you. Mostly.
The only thing I'd say is there's a difference between constructive
preaching and destructive preaching. It's good, even necessary, to
spread our philosophy. Just like my church sends out missionaries by
the thousands to spread what we believe is the gospel, millions of
Christians around the world get involved with outreach ministries and
procelyting, and so forth. As you say, that's human nature and when
people try and build up their own philosophy by spreading the message
to others, I say it's a beautiful thing.
The problem is destructive preaching. So when a Mormon missionary
deliberately attacks another church, when a Christian minister decides
to burn the Qu'ran instead of talking about Christ, or when a
Federationist goes out of his way to smear the Council instead of
strengthening the Federation. I get that there are times the
Federaion and Council are in conflict because it's what our respective
philosophies demand. (even if the ACB doesn't have a national
philosophy, strictly speaking) But in that conflict, when it happens,
it critical that we stand by our own message rather than going out of
our way to destroy theirs. America's a free market of
ideas-strengthening our own position will serve us better than
weakening anyone else's. Of course, you know how that all translates
in to the political realm and I suspect it doesn't always translate
well.
But I think, especially on a personal level, we live our philosophy
and we share it. That doesn't mean we make an effort to call them out
or make them feel like their beliefs are wrong. If their beliefs are
wrong, better for them to realize it in time if they're the kind of
person that will...if they aren't, why not let it rest and try to get
along? t the veeat, say godbye and avoid an unpleasant confrontation
if you know the other person won't bend. I recognize that philosophy
doesn't always work when dealing with other organizations but, when
dealing with individuals, I don't see why it can't. Isn't it better
to live a life as a respectable blind person, answer questions as
they're presented, maybe talk a little about the Federation if it
comes up and let them decide what they want? If they accept it,
great! If not, that's ok too. I know plenty of respectable blind
people outside the Federation-our way isn't the only ay for people to
become independent and empowered. Maybe another way is honestly
better for someone else. And, if they don't want that independence
and empowerment after it's been offered kindly and respectfully, isn't
it better just to drop the subject and try to be friends? Who
knows,maybe they'd come around eventually. An angry debate certainly
wouldn't help that happen.
In closing, I'd like to share an experience that kept me out of the
NFB for a long time, even though it didn't happen to me. My parents
found out I was blind a w months after I was born. Naturally those
first few years were really difficult for them, I can't imagine what
that's like for a parent. Anyways my mom decided she wanted to be an
O&M instructor, so she went to school in Arizona. While there, she
was introduced to the Federation and went to a meeting. The way she
told me the story, a blind woman approached her and said "I'm going to
tell you something important. Your son is blind. You are not. So
you'll never be able to understand him as much as we can." Had that
first introduction to the Federation been more respectful, I suspect
I'd be a lifetime member. As it stands now, my parents are still a
little on guard around the Federation (although they certainly support
my involvement), and they themselves are not Federationists. I often
wonder how much more involved they would be had that first
introduction gone just a little bit differently.
Warmly,
Kirt
On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Kirt:
>
> I agree that, ideally at least, we should live and let live. In fact, as a
> practical matter, that is what is done here in the state of Washington: the
> NFB of Washington and the Washington Council of the Blind work together when
> we can -- often rather closely -- but we agree to disagree on some matters
> and as long as no one stirs the pot, we tend to stay out of each other's way
> on matters on which we disagree, if only because neither organization has
> sufficient political clout to prevail easily when we work at cross-purposes.
> But you can bet your life that if WCB actively pushed something that was
> totally against NFB policy, we of NFB would try to defeat WCB's effort. In
> like fashion, I am certain that WCB would do the same viz. our efforts if
> they directly contradicted some ACB policy that WCB members held dear. That
> isn't really a problem in that Mitch Pomerantz, President of ACB, himself
> said that ACB stands for no organized philosophy and ACB doesn't enforce
> unified policy directives on its affiliates. In other words, the problem
> hasn't arisen here -- at least not in the past twenty-five years. And the
> threats to blindness agencies in this state have been of sufficient
> magnitude that we (NFBW and WCB) were on the same side, even if we love some
> the agencies a bit less than do members of WCB; there was no alternative.
>
> Having said this, I don't believe that the lack of effectiveness in the
> black civil rights movement of the late 1960's was due to fragmented voices
> within that movement. Rather, I think it was due in some measure to martin
> Luther King Jr.'s scattering his shots -- coming out against the Vietnam War
> and for anti-poverty initiatives, for example, instead of keeping his "eye
> on the prize" as the PBS history of the civil rights movement is called. I
> think there was room enough for many voices in the civil rights movement
> although I confess that many WASPs such as I were turned off big-time by
> Stoakley Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, bobby Seal, Eldrige Cleaver and other
> persons of like mind.
>
> I think the comparison by some of our detractors of NFB to a religion is
> much overblown. However, I think the comparison is valid to this extent: if
> one truly applied your "live and let live" and "preach by example"
> philosophy -- quite admirable in the abstract -- to religion, there would be
> no missionaries, no jihad, no outreach ministries, and the like. Put another
> way, it's human nature to try to reach out to convince those with whom we
> disagree or those whom we would convert. "gospel" means "good news", after
> all.
>
> Does this mean that we should look down upon blind people who do not have
> the skills of blindness? Of course not. They, like we, are "Within the Grace
> of God" as tenBroek's speech is entitled. Does this mean that there are not
> alternative ways to look at the problems of blindness? Again, of course not.
> But let us remember that we of NFB are out to do nothing less than to change
> society -- to obliterate the stereotype of the "helpless blind person" and
> the discriminatory treatment, blighted hopes and missed opportunities that
> flow from this misbegotten stereotype. And in the United States, change is
> effected by banding together in associations of like mind to advocate for
> those policies we believe in. This is not an undertaking of passivity. For
> better or worse, advocacy involves, to some extent at least, preaching. Of
> course this does not mean that we should be intolerant or maintain that
> there are no other viewpoints. But it *also* doesn't mean that we refrain
> from passionately advocating for what we believe in. that's the way things
> get done in this country.
>
> How this all plays out at a personal level isn't always easy to fathom. As
> I've said before, no one ever said being a Federationist was easy. But I
> submit that *not* saying anything -- even if only words of encouragement --
> when we find injustice, erroneous stereotypes and persons selling themselves
> short -- is contrary to what we have pledged ourselves to accomplish.
>
> WE should never be obnoxious or boorish. But saying nothing is itself making
> a statement.
>
> What this all amounts to is espousal of the Serenity Prayer: "O god: give me
> the strength to change the things I can, the patience to accept the things I
> cannot and the wisdom to discern the difference.".
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>
> Mike,
> In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are lots of
> different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of different people-you
> probably know more about that than me having lived through a lot of the
> craziness. Do you think more could've happened faster if...say, Martin
> Luther King and Malcolm X spent less time bickering and more time
> cooperating or, at the very least, ignoring each other? I'm not denying
> that both of them did a lot to better the condition of black people...but
> imagine what could've happened if the two of them didn't take so long to
> reconcile-or, if nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each
> others'
> philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective movements?
> Could that comparison be aplicable to us? Am I remiss when I say that we
> in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the philosophies of other
> blind people rather than advancing our own philosophy? Am I remiss in
> saying that many in the ACB spend more time trying to tear down the
> Federation instead of building up the Council? Why can't we, if nothing
> else, leave each other alone and spend all our time working on our own
> goals?
> Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude individual blind
> people who disagree with us. Ideally we should try to engage in
> constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with people who
> disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily living skills.
> After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, and become
> empowered with good training. But let's say they don't accept our
> philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, let's say they
> want nothing to do with the Federation. I say first we try and learn
> whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and atitude (or lack
> thereof). Once we've learned something from them, even if it's as simple as
> "I need to have better cane skills" or "this guy has terrible hygiene-at
> least I know now why it's so important to take showers!", then I think we
> try and let them learn from us. That can either be by talking or by them
> looking at our example...if they chose to not accept our world view, there's
> no reason to get angry and defensive. There is still probably common ground
> somewhere and, even in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which
> is probably due to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and
> move on.
> If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live and let live,
> and all that jazz.
> Warmly,
> Kirt
>
> On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However,
>> you could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking
>> Alone and marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the
>> NLS Web-braille
>> site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James
>> McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the
>> Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites.
>>
>> It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB
>> convention banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer.
>>
>> I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was
> easy!
>> (huge grin)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Gregory
>> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what they
>> went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread.
>> Josh
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when, at
>> late as the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the
>> help of the police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and
>> go through their homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that
>> would indicate that the clients had unreported income. This extended
>> even to such items as a new dress.
>>
>> I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of what
>> went down in the past.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard
>> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our struggle
>> for civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American
>> experience, but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read some
>> history on how blind people have been treated by families and
>> institutions over the years. Blind children were targets for sexual
>> assault in extremely high numbers because they were considered to be
>> vulnerable. They were placed in horrific living conditions throughout
>> history in institutions because families believed that blindness was
>> equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be able to succeed or
>> help out their relatives. As a people group, we have suffered many
>> indignities that I don't think the current generation of blind people
>> even come close to realizing.
>>
>> Best,
>> Briley
>> On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote:
>>
>> Mike:
>> African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term
>> themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon how
>> they were treated by whites up to that time.
>> It is curious that how african-americans were treated is
>> always
>> one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our
>> comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I wonder,
>> were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully protest
>> the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we safely
>> make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I could be,
>> and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some
>> similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our histories
>> were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on largely
>> different levels.
>> Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate the
>> question.
>> Respectfully,
>> Darian
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Darian:
>>
>> What do you think African-americans would have said during the
>> 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather
>> date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons
>> dating?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Jedi,
>> Sure-let me see...
>> We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with
>> situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For
>> example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually
>> impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses
>> products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass,
>> braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who
>> don't utilize these things seem lesser for not.
>> I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than
>> a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two
>> blind people dating.
>> Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would
>> like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in
>> their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am
>> fine
>> with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are
>> accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that
>> we are "wrong"
>> for thinking like we do.
>> Does that make sense?
>> Respecgfully,
>> Darian
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Very good points.
>> We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to
>> remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one
>> member of a minority group address another member of that same group
>> if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in
>> public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image
>> of the rest of that group to society?
>> I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it
>> varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon
>> ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that
>> positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is
>> the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing
>> that we think about alot, Does that make sense?
>> thoughts?
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>> Excellent points.
>>
>> I'm going to add to that some.
>>
>> I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they
>> attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or
>> discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such
>> judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for
>> the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the
>> blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will
>> my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that
>> way?
>> What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted
>> bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation
>> where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits
>> problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a
>> greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the
>> blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction.
>> So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person
>> to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept
>> boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with
>> feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and
>> graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's
>> offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that
>> by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be
>> shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes
>> situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present
>> the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public.
>>
>> On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in
>> our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us.
>> The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility.
>> Sure, we
>> want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone
>> else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one
>> person.
>> But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that
>> except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our
>> population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that
>> the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all
>> amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a
>> rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're
>> as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct
>> society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity
>> in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on
>> one person.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>> That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of
>> taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose
>> sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a
>> therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is
>> not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place
>> is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that
>> person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of
>> thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as
>> soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect
>> for everyone around them, including themselves.
>> So
>> if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them!
>> That person will either fall hard when they find out their
>> parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take
>> care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen
>> in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to
>> change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person
>> because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it
>> to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come
>> around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here.
>> Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting
>> anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a
>> potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet
>> someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person
>> real quick
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view
>> that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted
>> are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one
>> blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for
>> what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting
>> an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks,
>> pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside
>> person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like
>> that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other
>> blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're
>> just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It
>> puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves,
>> have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not
>> saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to
>> have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes,
>> rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their
>> own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's
>> going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall
>> right behind that. Am I making sense?
>>
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>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>
>> - Robert Byrne
>>
>>
>>
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>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>
>> - Robert Byrne
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>>
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