[nabs-l] a great article

Wed Sep 7 03:47:55 UTC 2011

Arielle, it works both ways.
If we respect them, they need to respect us.
Terms like, "Tenbroek Machine," shouldn't be used to describe us, by
that organization.
I know, because I've observed that mess, from the outside, looking in.
I'm thankful for the NFB, and we all need to respect one another.
Blessings, Joshua

On 9/6/11, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Chris, I'm glad you decided to share this article. While I didn't find
> anything in it particularly special either, I think we need to be
> careful not to reject a piece of writing or thought just because it
> happens to come from the ACB. It is true that ACB and NFB have taken
> different stances on some policy issues and that the two organizations
> have very different philosophies about leadership. However, when it
> comes down to it, ACB is made up of a bunch of blind folks just like
> us who have decided to join together to obtain support and collective
> advocacy. While I personally wouldn't join the ACB and prefer to stay
> with NFB, and I don't advocate having the two organizations unite
> because I think it's good for blind people to have a choice of
> organizations to join, I think we do owe the ACB folks some respect
> here.
> Furthermore, though many of the members of this list are already
> committed Federationists as Heather pointed out, some of us are still
> exploring what the two organizations have to offer. Please, let's not
> shoot down this exploration. I have been on this list for eleven years
> and one of the things I like best about it is that we are free to
> discuss our views on blindness and to examine and critique other
> people's ideas-even if we don't all agree with them or even if our
> personal views are unpopular. Stifling these thoughts and reflections
> is likely to do more harm than good, and, I fear, to make some folks
> reluctant to join us. When I was in this questioning stage myself, one
> of the things that pushed me to take the plunge and join NFB was the
> fact that I was encouraged to ask questions and to challenge NFB
> actions that I didn't fully understand. If we get too zealous about
> the superiority of NFB's views over other ways of thinking about
> blindness, we risk thwarting the development of some of our future
> leaders who are still deciding where NFB fits in their lives.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ashley,
>>   I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
>> Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
>> back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
>> while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
>>   Take care,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> ,
>>> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just hit
>>> the
>>> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
>>> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the article,
>>> it
>>> had some good tips, but they were
>>> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
>>> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
>>> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
>>> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
>>> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
>>> those.
>>>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
>>> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
>>> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
>>> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
>>> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
>>> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
>>> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
>>> established organized movement.
>>>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
>>> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
>>> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
>>> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
>>> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>>>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
>>> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
>>> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
>>> with the list.
>>>   Cheers,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>>>> Heather and Chris,
>>>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a great
>>>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>>>> right
>>>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>>>> personal
>>>> opinion on anything.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and seeing
>>>> how
>>>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this out
>>>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>>>> meant
>>>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this list
>>>> will find useful and others wont.
>>>>
>>>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and hope
>>>> you
>>>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a lot
>>>> of
>>>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I don't
>>>> think
>>>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>>>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>>>>
>>>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of
>>>> the
>>>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of
>>>> friends
>>>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love this
>>>> for
>>>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>>>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on a
>>>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to and
>>>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll stop
>>>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure about.
>>>>
>>>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but
>>>> hopefully
>>>> it
>>>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a
>>>> wonderful
>>>> weekend, everyone.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>> David Dodge
>>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>> English Major
>>>> University at Buffalo
>>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>>>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chris,
>>>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted is
>>>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've
>>>>> established
>>>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying to
>>>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated to
>>>>> get
>>>>> involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a
>>>>> condition
>>>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally, rarely
>>>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local level,
>>>>> but
>>>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>>>>> either
>>>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people can
>>>>> be
>>>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate goals
>>>>> are
>>>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly rush
>>>>> off
>>>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an organisation
>>>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be poring
>>>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists,
>>>>> why
>>>>> you
>>>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically making
>>>>> a
>>>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have signed
>>>>> up
>>>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made their
>>>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the
>>>>> occasional
>>>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that the
>>>>> two
>>>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical
>>>>> issues.
>>>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to do
>>>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it
>>>>> means
>>>>> to
>>>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated by
>>>>> the
>>>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their communities
>>>>> to
>>>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things. It
>>>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>>>>> members.
>>>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them back.
>>>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I question.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a bunch
>>>>> of
>>>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>>>>> annoying.
>>>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it. But,
>>>>> we
>>>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>>>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>>>>> subscribers
>>>>> to try
>>>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy
>>>>> doing
>>>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>>>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy doing
>>>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>>>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you are
>>>>> breaking copyright law.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Heather Field
>>>>>
>>>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national, state
>>>>> and
>>>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>>>>> lifted
>>>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>>>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>>>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>>>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>>>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>>>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>>>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>>>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>>>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>>>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>>>>>
>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>>>> its purpose,
>>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>>>> lack of
>>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>>>> forfeit what
>>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>>>> great
>>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>>>> that can
>>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>>>> explore the
>>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>>>> to assist
>>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>>>> skills
>>>>> complement yours.
>>>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>>>> turn
>>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>>>> looking
>>>>> for.
>>>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>>>>> involved.
>>>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>>>> observe
>>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>>>> organization.
>>>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>>>>> affiliate
>>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>>> objectives.  Seek
>>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>>>> abilities in
>>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>>>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>>>> a president
>>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>>>>> our
>>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>>>> learn about
>>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>>> awards, and
>>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>>>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>>>> others
>>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>>>> occupation, hobbies,
>>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>>>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>>>> learn
>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>>>> organization.
>>>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>>>> calls with
>>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>>>> calls.
>>>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>>>> site that
>>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>>>> the same.
>>>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>>>>> you
>>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>>>> that is
>>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>>>>
>>>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>
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