[nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum

Fri Jul 13 01:32:56 UTC 2012

Loren: another good post.
I'll let you handle the rest of this discussion, because I'm tired of it.
Blessings, Joshua

On 7/12/12, Loren <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com> wrote:
> These types of question are also aked by sighted individuals.  Granted, the
> answers an solutions are different, but blindness has nothing to do with
> these questions.  They are a natural part of growing up and discovering
> what
> attracts you to someone.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Brandon Keith Biggs
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>
> Josh, frankly that's very dangerous and I'm scared for you. Not knowing
> what
> the stuff I described below feels like is analogous to not knowing what it
> is in the first place.
> I do agree that sex ed is totally inadequate for the school system and I'm
> sorry if someone disagrees with me, but I think that if someone believes
> sex
> should not be taught as extensively as math, they are refusing to be human.
> We are animals and our goal in life is to grow up, have sex, make babies,
> rays those babies and die.
> What separates us from our cats and dogs is the fact that we can learn
> skills in order to make our 3 stages more enjoyable. It's a crime to say we
> should be abstinent and it's going against everything we are. We are one
> third sexual beings and today we just ignore that one third of ourselves.
> I once read a book by Margret Weis that talked about a group of people who
> celebrated their bodies, loved pleasure and they even used condoms as
> ornaments on their Christmas trees. These people were the most happy of
> everyone in the book and the particular character was the smartest in the
> book.
> It's my opinion that there should be a new section that goes along with
> reading writing and arithmetic that is romance. With divorce raits being
> around 50% I think that's a true indication that we've got a problem. One
> can say learning about sex is gross, it's something that should be avoided
> and at all costs it should not be promoted among our kids! But the numbers
> are out and glairing:
> "The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the
> rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for
> 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%."
> http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divorce-statistics-and-divorce-rate-in-the
> -usa.html
> If that's not a problem, I don't know what is.
>
> Sophie, what if you were a gay child who was blind? How would you
> understand
> how to express yourself? How would you be able to find people who
> understood
> you if you didn't know what to look for? Especially if goodness forbid you
> were put into a conservative household?
> I shutter to think how horrible that would be.
>
> A couple kissing in front of you may be gross, touching a panes with
> hurpies
> may be gross, seeing a gay couple in skirts may be gross, but it's
> important!
> It's part of growing up and it's something that will leave a child
> developmentally delayed if not addressed.
>
> My mom has been good and tells me about the couple making out in front of
> their apartment building and how passionate they are:
> "His right hand is around her back and his left hand is under her hair
> cupping her head. They are so close together that there is no room between
> them. Her hands are on his shoulders and they are so in love that they come
> up for air and have to go back in for more. When one try's to go, they get
> pulled back into the other's embrace for one more kiss and that kiss turns
> into a lot more than that one kiss. Now the guy has his hands around her
> back and he's stroking her back while they're kissing..."
>
> It's really important to know details like that, his hand is between her
> hair and neck, what pose they are in, how they are holding each other, how
> they are acting, so we can copy in our relationships. We are blind and
> don't
> know any of that stuff. How are we supposed to know what a good bye kiss
> looks like? How are we supposed to know how far to go when we're on the
> bus?
>
> How are we supposed to know how far we're to go in the movie theater? At
> some point it becomes a matter of legality and we are blissfully unaware.
>
> If sex is put into biology it's reduced to a robotic function:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joIYo0g7HUw
> Sex is definitely not robotic! (I wouldn't want to make sex to a robot...)
> It's emotional and so much more than just a biological function. That is
> what makes us different than our dog or rabbet.
> This is why I believe sex and romance should be put into a totally
> different
> class of their own.
>
> What I think the blind class should focus on is more hands on mottles, but
> most importantly, how to read and give queues and expressions that signify
> sexual interest.
> How do you flirt? I've yet herd a good answer from a blind person on that
> question.
> How do I get a date for the prom? This is a question I've heard way too
> many
> times from different blind teens in high school.
> How do I ask a person out? Goodness knows this haunted my middle school
> years.
> How do I tell a woman she's beautiful through my face? Any blind guys want
> to take this one?
> How do I know she's flirting with me? This could be important sometime...
> How do I have a chance with a girl who's playing hard to get? I can't even
> find her!
> What kind of touching is permitted when and where? You didn't tell me that
> spot was private...!
>
> These are the problems that plague the blind community and they are what I
> think the curriculum should focus on, above and beyond the sex/romance
> class.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Desiree Oudinot
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:34 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>
> Hi,
> Brandon, I couldn't agree more with your post. Very well said. but I have
> to
> say that it's not just blind people who aren't taught these things. While
> sighted people may be more exposed to sex from watching people make out or
> get physical, and this could even include their parents, sex ed curriculums
> in general aren't exactly top notch. Most are abstinence only, with a
> distinct slant towards the doom and gloom side of things. It makes
> everything risque for kids who are saying, "what's the big deal?" And
> honestly, if they take the right precautions, they may be right. Have any
> of
> you ever checked out avert.org? It's an Aids charity which has a wealth of
> information directed at teens. There are stories about teens' first sexual
> experiences. While some do indeed end in heartbreak or STD's, there are
> plenty of others who attest to the fact that, while relationships don't
> have
> to last forever, teens can be content with their sexuality, their choices
> and their feelings. There are people who have sex at a young age who don't
> regret it, who don't live in crappy apartments with rats crawling up the
> walls while they prostitute themselves to support the baby they made at 14.
> So, in high school and younger, lots of misinformation flies from one
> inexperienced ear to another, and that's how people not only face
> consequences when they experiment, but also harbor guilt and shame when
> they
> feel they have no one they can turn to. Their friends may have steered them
> in the wrong direction with outright lies, however well-intentioned they
> may
> have been, and parents are often so uncomfortable with seeing their
> children
> as sexual beings that they never do much besides mumble something about the
> birds and the bees, and then, in a much more emphatic voice, say, JUST
> DON'T
> DO IT! Well, we all know how well that kind of thing works most of the
> time!
> And the schools are basically doing the same thing by teaching abstinence
> only, when you think about it.
> Now, how does blindness factor into this? Truthfully, in an educational
> sense, it doesn't, in my opinion. Blind people are experiencing the same
> feelings and desires as sighted people. They talk to their friends, whether
> they're blind or sighted, about these topics just as sighted people talk to
> other sighted people about them.
> Blind people watch movies where sex and masturbation are discussed or acted
> out, and with described movies, while the describer isn't going to go into
> explicit detail, they will say something about the activity being
> discussed.
> Let's also not forget that partially sighted people are probably going to
> pick up a Playboy or watch porn at some point.
> There's still the same danger of misinformation, and the same parental
> reluctance to discuss these topics. the only slight difference may be that
> parents may balk more at the idea of their blind child having sex than they
> would at their sighted child doing the same thing. I speak from personal
> experience on this one--my parents used to tell me I shouldn't have sex
> because I was blind, not so much because of the physical act but because of
> the fact I could get pregnant, and God forbid a blind person should become
> a
> parent.
> In summation, I don't think a separate curriculum needs to be written up
> for
> blind people about this sensitive subject. For one thing, blindness doesn't
> mean you have to do things differently, and I feel that the blind are
> already singled out enough that trying to alter the sex ed curriculum for
> us
> would just lead to even more awkwardness and embarrassment. Sex ed
> curriculums need to become more inclusive in general, and the teachers who
> teach them need to make an effort not to let their personal feelings and
> biases get in the way. If a teacher can't do that, perhaps they shouldn't
> be
> handling the material. If psychologists and others in the helping
> profession
> must remain objective about their clients and work, so too should teachers.
> It's sex ed itself that needs an overhaul, not nit picking at something
> that's way far from the root of the problem.
>
> On 7/12/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Brandon, the stuff you mentioned, is something that I'm glad that I
>> don't see.
>> JMHO!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 7/12/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Sighted people are exposed to sex all the time, haven't you heard of
>>> playboy
>>>
>>> or penthouse? Also, what about those people making out on the bus? Or
>>> the gay couple walking down the sidewalk in skirts and bikini? All
>>> that we miss
>>>
>>> because we're blind.
>>> Books are grate, but you can only learn so much from a manual.
>>> Sighted kids
>>>
>>> get pictures, we should get to feel. Also, how is a blind person
>>> supposed to
>>>
>>> know they have an STD if they have never felt one? How do they know
>>> it's not
>>>
>>> just a cut or dehydration?
>>> Sighted people are given extensive viewings of the peaness and vagina
>>> in class or in pictures, why can't blind people get the same?
>>> Frankly I believe that the art of giving pleasure has become such a
>>> suppressed skill that people have even resorted to substance abuse to
>>> obtain
>>>
>>> pleasure. Our bodies were meant to give us pleasure, why aren't we
>>> taught to
>>>
>>> utilize these pleasure factories? What's the meaning of life? To love
>>> and be
>>>
>>> happy! Why aren't we taught to be happy, to give pleasure, to love
>>> our selves in school?
>>> It's a fundamental wrong that I find is a crime against the words
>>> human beings, but that's kind of a different issue.
>>> But if this curriculum is any bit good, teachers will adopt it
>>> instead of the droll thing they have now.
>>>
>>> btw what about feeling a condom, diaphragm or dental dam? How is a
>>> blind person supposed to know what one looks like if they haven't
>>> felt one or tried it on? Also, how does a blind person shop for
> contraception's?
>>> Me: "Next on my list is condoms." Walgreens guy: "OK, what brand do
>>> you want? Durex, Trojan, Crown, Kimono..." Me: "Uh, what's your
> favorite?"
>>> Walgreens guy: "Most people get Trojan, what size do you want? We've
>>> got small, medium, large and extra large. We've also got narrow and
>>> wide.
>>> Here
>>> are some flavors as well..."
>>>
>>> That's just a wall greens guy who is comfortable, what if it's one of
>>> the really shy ladies who doesn't speak English? Sighted people can
>>> be unobtrusive and just buy the condom or diaphragm along with their
>>> lube where
>>>
>>> as a blind person has to know what questions to ask and know what
>>> brands to
>>>
>>> get. I learned what questions to ask when shopping by watching my
>>> parents, but I've never seen my parents buy condoms.
>>> It's a serious issue and this program will help address those problems.
>>> And
>>>
>>> what about masturbation? I've rarely read a book where masturbation
>>> is talked about and I've read a lot of books! How does a guy
>>> masturbate without
>>>
>>> making a mess?
>>> Sex Ed is not just about a sperm and an egg get together to form a
>>> baby, that's more science.
>>> Sex Ed is about sex and it's an issue that blind people fall way
>>> short in when it comes to being educated along with their fellow
> students.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Herrin, Amber R.
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:40 AM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>
>>> Dear Joshua,
>>>
>>> I have to agree with you here!  For me, the idea of knowing about
>>> sex, before I'm sharing it with my husband, is kind of...unnecessary, I
> guess?
>>> Maybe the wrong answer, and I understand that not everyone believes
>>> you should wait until marriage as I do, but I think that being blind
>>> doesn't prevent us from finding out about it the same way sighted
>>> people do-experiment (isn't that what most people do anyway?) or read
>>> books written on the topic (how confusing can text be?)
>>>
>>> Amber R. Herrin
>>> Assistive Technology Trainer in Training: 2012
>>> Mobile: (513) 593-5855
>>> E-mail: herrinar at muohio.edu
>>> "It doesn't matter what you've heard
>>> Impossible is not a word
>>> It's just a reason
>>> For someone not to try
>>>
>>> Everybody's scared to death
>>> When they decide to take that step
>>> Out on the water
>>> It'll be alright
>>>
>>> Life is so much more
>>> Than what your eyes are seeing
>>> You will find your way
>>> If you keep believing"
>>> -Kutless "What Faith Can Do"
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:35 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex Education Curriculum
>>>
>>> I personally did fine, in those courses, in school, without the new
>>> proposed curriculum, that they're wanting.
>>> I don't see the need for one, because who really wants to know,
>>> what's being shown, in those slides?
>>> Good grief!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 7/11/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear NFB Member,
>>>>>The National Federation of the Blind has been gracious enough to
>>>>>help us with a current project.
>>>>>
>>>>>We are currently seeking your opinion in a survey that will help us
>>>>>write a curriculum for students with low vision and blindness in the
>>>>>area of sex education.  Currently no curriculum exists for students
>>>>>with low vision and blindness that reflect current education
>>>>>standards.  Young people, educators, and professionals have all
>>>>>indicated that there is a desperate need for such a curriculum.
>>>>>We want your voice to impact our work!
>>>>>Please take the time to fill out the survey at the link found below:
>>>>><https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>https://www.surve
>>>>>ym
>>>>>onkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey
>>>>>
>>>>><https://maverick.hec.ohio-state.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https
>>>>>:/ /www.surveymonkey.com/s/sexeducationsurvey>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you for your time and consideration of this project!
>>>>>Tiffany Wild, Mollie Blackburn, Stacy Kelly, and Caitlin Ryan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you,
>>>>>Mika Baugh
>>>>>National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>200 East Wells Street
>>>>>      at Jernigan Place
>>>>>Baltimore, MD 21230
>>>>>P: (410) 659 9314 ext. 2371
>>>>>E: <mailto:mbaugh at nfb.org>mbaugh at nfb.org
>>>>>W: <http://www.nfb.org>www.nfb.org
>>>>>
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>>>
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