[nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
Sophie Trist
sweetpeareader at gmail.com
Fri Jul 20 15:44:16 UTC 2012
For identifying money, I use Looktell Money Reader, an app on my
iPhone. To me, that's easier to use than the iBill, and it's one
less device to carry around. I am also not in favor of accessible
currency. For one, with various devices and apps, we are now able
to tell which bill is which, anyway. For another, as Desiree
said, it would be too costly and take too long.
----- Original Message -----
From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 04:15:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Philosophy
Thank you, Tyler. Those were my thoughts exactly. One thing
you've got
slightly wrong though is that the new money identifiers really
aren't
clunky. The IBill, in fact, can easily fit into your pocket. Then
you
just slide a bill into it and it identifies it for you. It can
respond
by vibration, a series of beeps, or by speaking the denomination
of
the bill. I have one of them, and not only is it inexpensive, but
it
works well.
On the issue of accessible currency, I'm not in favor of that,
either.
For one thing, it would take quite awhile for the old money to be
phased out. It would remain in circulation for years, thus you
would
still have the old, inaccessible bills handed to you in most
cases for
a long time. Second, think of how many things would have to be
modified--vending machines, cash registers, even things like
arcade
games that might take dollar bills, all to fit the new currency.
That
would be extremely costly. God knows that the government doesn't
have
the money to spend on something like that. No, they're too busy
wasting it on pointless crap...Everything to do with every other
country's business, never stepping up to help our own people.
Back on topic, as far as the NFB's philosophy goes, I have to
agree
with what Arielle said about not needing to be in an organization
for
or of the blind to have a positive attitude about blindness.
That's
like saying that one must be religious to have morals. No, I
don't
want to know if people think that's true or false--I've heard
enough
of that debate to last a lifetime--I'm just saying it to make a
point.
While some people are certainly bolstered by being members of
such an
organization, gaining something from being surrounded by
like-minded
individuals, that's definitely not me. I'm not a member of either
organization, nor do I intend on becoming one. I use listservs of
both
because I think that, like the core philosophy, the exchange of
ideas,
support and thoughts should not be limited to what team you play
for
so to speak. For the most part, it isn't. We're all people, and
we all
deserve to be heard, no matter what flag we wave in the name of
our
own self-discovery.
Oh, and Joshua, get your facts straight. Michael Capell decided
to
stay with the ACB. I really don't think you should spread rumors
about
people without knowing the whole story.
On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
Josh,
you really are an idiot. It's not to often that I just drop all
sarcasm
and really go for it, but I have to.
You start out introducing nothing to the list but bad
information and
one-line "I agree," "I have those too," then you jump into
bashing me
when I ask about the philosophy of NFB. From there, we move into
"Dam
the ACB for not voting for fair wages. NFB voted against
something, but
hey, that's ok because we'd put the manufacturers of equipment
and
software out of business," and we go on to "omg it would cost
lots of
money to make this accessible."
It's people like you who drive people away. Maybe you did just
get
Michael capell, congratulations, but there are people that
switch back
and forth all the time. If you have to wait for someone like
Sean and
the others on this list to give you an intelligent cogent
philosophy you
can grab on to as a lifeline so you can hop back up on your
self-righteous confederationist soapbox, then all the more power
to you.
Might I propose though, that you go from being a mindless
confederationist zombie who spews random crap and calls it fact,
and
actually consider thinking for yourself. Your arguments for the
NFB not
passing the accessible money is not logical at all. In fact, if
I
remember correctly, you were one of the ones screaming about
things
costing to much a few messages back.
I don't want what I said to be taken as an attack on the NFB,
either. I
believe every organization has good members who can give good,
valid
information like Sean, Arielle and others have, but they also
have a
high percentage of mindless bafoons, like our dear friend, as
well.
I understand that it would cost money to make currency brailled
and
accessible, but hey, on the flip-side, it would cost money to
pay
disabled people fair wages, too, so lets just drop that, because
we
can't have something costing money now, can we?
As for my idea of currency, I really have no idea how this would
work
out, since the braille could get smashed. Maybe there could be a
strip
of thicker paper at one end of the bill that would have the
braille on
it; it would not prevent it from getting pushed down, but it
would
certainly help, and we wouldn't have to walk around with one of
them
clunky expensive money readers, or hold the bill in front of the
IPhone
for 5 minutes rotating it every which direction until it picks
it up and
announces it.
On 7/19/2012 11:43 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
Also, do you know how much it would cost to make the money
accessible?
My idea, when Alan Ramos first presented it to me, was a
Brailled
currency.
What is your idea of accessible currency?
I'm curious!
Thanks, Joshua
On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
I did attend the convention. I did not, however go to every
general
session from 8 to 5.
But hey. lets bash the ACB for not voting for fair wages, for
whatever
reason they did, but not make money accessible because gosh, we
sure
don't want to put the manufacturers of a program out of
business. Your
logic is flawless, my friend.
On 7/19/2012 11:20 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
Well, did you attend the convention?
You should know!
I'm not "bashing," but am concerned that they claim to be of the
blind, but they vote against fair wages.
BTW, they voted for the accessible currency, but we voted
against it.
I've heard from both sides of the issue, and I take the NFB's
position, because accessible currency would put the
manufacturers of
the IBill out of business.
Blessings, Joshua
On 7/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
Josh,
Like I said, before you go organization bashing and flap your
lips,
you
should probably ask someone in ACB who knows about it. There's
been
things that the NFB has voted against too, I'm sure.
On 7/19/2012 10:30 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
Arielle: that was a great post.
I just have one question about this.
If our philosophies aren't at odds, then why did the ACB vote,
"Do
Not
Pass," on the "Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act,"
resolution at their convention?
Evidently, they're okay with disabled workers being paid below
the
federally mandated minimum wage.
Hmmm!
Thanks, Joshua
On 7/19/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I think Sean's description of "NFB philosophy" as he sees it was
excellent. I would also add two things:
1. I don't think the NFB has a patent on this philosophy. In
fact, I
would argue that most committed ACB members and many other
successful
blind people who choose not to affiliate with organizations also
espouse the positive philosophy of blindness that Sean
described.
The
NFB has chosen to make this philosophy a central focus, but that
does
not mean that non-NFB members cannot live by it themselves or
encourage others to accept it. It is important to remember that
the
ACB split off from the NFB, and although I am not an expert on
what
happened, everything I've read about the split suggests that it
occurred because of disagreements about how leadership in the
organization should be structured, not about fundamental
philosophy
of
blindness. In more recent years the NFB and ACB have taken
differing
approaches to some policy issues, but that does not necessarily
mean
that their core philosophies of blindness are at odds. I don't
think
the two organizations should merge into one super-organization
of
blind Americans because I like the fact that individuals have
choices
about which organization to join and that there's not one big
group
monopolizing the organizational stage. But I also think that the
NFB
and ACB have more in common in terms of their goals for changing
what
it means to be blind than we might think on first glance.
2. To address Marc's point about universal design: In the nine
years
I
have been a part of the NFB, I have observed that the NFB
increasingly
takes a pragmatic dualistic approach to promoting both
individual
coping with accessibility barriers and advocacy to bring them
down.
I
would urge you to read the NFB 2012 resolutions once they become
available online, and you will find that most of these
resolutions
address access barriers in one form or another and advocate for
their
removal. I believe the NFB is moving further in the direction of
pushing for accessibility and I have seen change on this front
even
since the time when I first joined nine years ago. However,
though
we
are committed to doing what we can to promote universal access
for
blind people, we also are aware that, realistically, it will
take
time
for all those in power to make it happen. In the meantime, we
are
also
working to help blind individuals figure out how to adapt to
those
barriers we are not yet able to control. For example, we will
fight
for full access to educational technology, but instead of
waiting to
enroll in college until this access happens, we will also work
to
harness the support of human readers and other adaptations so
that
we
can still be successful in spite of these barriers. In other
words,
instead of pitting individual adaptation and universal design
against
each other as mutually exclusive options, why not take a dual
approach
toward both of these goals?
Arielle
On 7/19/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
I have a few notes for a few different people on this thread.
Tyler:
I understand the hesitancy about getting involved when you don't
fully
agree
with everything that everyone else believes. I once had that
hesitation
about getting involved with organized religion. I started going
to
a
campus
ministry at my college because a friend sold me on the free
dinner,
and
I
quickly learned that no church is homogenous in beliefs. In
some
churches,
the leadership will try like mad to perpetuate the idea that
everyone
in
the
church believes exactly what they do and that anyone who
disagrees
slightly
is against them. In my church, we aren't like that, and we
understand
that
people have differing views. We unite under the idea that it's
okay
to
disagree on individual issues and discuss them, but we have
generally
the
same core beliefs.
That's how we are in the Federation. If you don't agree with
something
we're doing, I'll make an effort to help you come to terms with
it
because
that's my individual personality. I often find that, when
someone
disagrees
with something we're doing, it is because of a lack of
understanding
of
what
we're doing or the underlying issue. At the end of the day, I
won't
shun
you.
Marc Workman:
Of course we, in the Federation, fight to break down the
barriers.
Why
do
you think we do legislative lobbying? Washington Seminar is an
absolutely
amazing experience, and you should try it! We honor
adaptability
because
there's no sense in being helpless in the meantime while we work
on
those
barriers.
On the mention of Sean's place in social stratification: I am a
colored
person, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, and
I
don't
bother wallowing in the lack of advantage that I face because of
it.
Quite
frankly, I'm not even convinced that I am disadvantaged by being
a
colored
person. With the first generation college student part, I have
to
seek
mentors in the academic process from outside my family, and I
know
many,
many educated Federationists who have eagerly fulfilled that
role
for
me.
Lastly, I've made comments like "i've had this conversation with
you
before"
in a public manner to other people-trust me, I have-but I've
realized
in
retrospect that it only creates distance between everyone who
hears
me
and
myself. A lot of people take that as an implied personal
attack.
I'm
not
saying Sean took it that way, but I'm sure plenty of people did
read
it
that
way.
Brandon Keith Biggs, I loved reading this part of your email:
In my book, there is no larger crime than depriving someone of
their
dreams
and the second biggest crime is taking away the chance for
people
to
reach
for those dreams. For while there are dreams, there is hope.
With
hope
life
always has enough energy to turn the corner and keep going. The
NFB
to
me
is that hope and the rock and refuge that is always there for me
if
I
need
it.
Yours in Federationism,
Justin Salisbury
Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens
can
change
the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”
—MARGARET
MEAD
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Take care,
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http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
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He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a
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he
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Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a
fool; he
that
dares not reason is a slave.
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Take care,
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http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a
fool; he that
dares not reason is a slave.
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