[nabs-l] Lines

Fri Apr 5 17:13:23 UTC 2013

Good morning, Kirt,

Perhaps, our views of guide dog's placement  within the blind human 
animal experiment differ. You seem to believe, and do correct me if I 
am seeing things, are that, since these guide dogs have been trained 
to serve humans, it should, in all cased trump nature. I am in 
fundamental disagreement with such a premise. If you think of it, 
these poor animal's innate quality of servitude of humans  is being 
exploited, to magnificent proportions, and I don't want party to 
that. This is why I can't ever see myself working with a dog.
Happy Frieday! Car, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>Kar,
>   First, while I think there is absolutely a time and place for
>profanity (you should have heard me when I accidentally spilled a cup
>of hot tea at a coffee shop just a few days ago), I don't think it
>suits a publicly archived mailing list.  This is coming from someone
>who can curse like a completely drunk sailor, believe me, I just don't
>think this is the right venue for language like that.
>   Now on to the substance of my email.  As should be completely
>obvious by now, I'm not a dog user and (probably) will never be one.
>Still I think leaving Fido home (as most guide dogs are trained to
>deal with), would be a better option than bringing the pooch to the
>amusement park.  If you want to go with a friend (as most people
>probably will), more power to you.  Still, if you have to rely on that
>friend to get you wherever you need to go, and you aren't capable of
>handling yourself should you get separated, either by accident or by
>choice, then I think you probably need some mobility training.  I hate
>making generalizations but, I think, that's a safe one to make.
>   Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 4/4/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Good morning, Jess,,
> >
> > If you considder the plight of a guide dog, it is most often  that
> > they are trained to deny their dog-ness, what MaMa nature inscribed
> > in its DNA I.E not barking or humping a leg, at times of being moved
> > to do so, not begging, being drug places unsuited for pooches. My
> > suggestion would be, for the poor dog's sake, to buddy up with a
> > friend, and let notions of independence go, at least for Fido's sake?
> > I know this will probably cause a shit storm, but there it is.
> > Have a great day, and, keep on smilin'! Car
> > ,
> >
> > Seeems toAt 04:54 AM 4/2/2013, you wrote:
> >
> >>Hello:
> >>Personally, and I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but
> >>I honestly feel this way. I strongly feel that people with guide
> >>dogs shouldn't be taking them to water parks anyway. I don't think
> >>it's right that the dog has to go through so much especially at a
> >>waterpark. I understand we want to look more independent and what
> >>not, but putting a dog through torture like that, at a crowded
> >>waterpark, waiting for hours and hours  possibly in lines if you
> >>choose to stand in a line just seems inhumane to me.
> >>Jess
> >>
> >>Check out my blog:
> >>http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva
> >>http://www.makemoneywithjessica.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------
> >>On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 4:55 AM MDT Carly Mihalakis wrote:
> >>
> >> >Good morning,
> >> >
> >> >         It seems to me, in the end your scores speak louder, and
> >> >with my clarity than if you happen to have taken extra time.  I mean,
> >> >who cares?
> >> >Car09:35 PM 3/31/2013, justin williams wrote:
> >> >>I take the time and a half.  Think what you want.  I can learn to
> >> be fast on
> >> >>a job.  I was one of the top agents at Teleperformance; still got
> >> cheated in
> >> >>the end.  I was one of the best agents in the call center. (Grin.)  No
> >> >> but
> >> >>seriously, I use any tool available to me.
> >> >>
> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
> >> >> Manwaring
> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:26 AM
> >> >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >>Subject: Re:                    [nabs-l] Lines
> >> >>
> >> >>Justin,
> >> >>   In high school I took the extra time way more than I should have; in
> >> >>hindsight, I was using it to hide the fact that I wasn't as efficient
> >> >> with
> >> >>braille as my peers were with print.  I know this is an entirely
> >> >> different
> >> >>subject, but I think extra time is legitimate only when inherently
> >> >> visual
> >> >>information like pictures and complex graphs need to be presented
> >> >> tactally
> >> >>or verbally.  Even then, it ought to be used with care because, as has
> >> >> been
> >> >>said ad noseum, you can't get the "time and a half" on the job.
> >> >>   Best,
> >> >>Kirt
> >> >>
> >> >>On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Do you take the time and a half on tests?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> >> >> > Silverman
> >> >> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:04 PM
> >> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Lines
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi all,
> >> >> > Thank you Kirt for making such a great point. When I was growing up
> >> >> > my
> >> >> > parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so that
> >> >> > we
> >> >> > could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it without
> >> >> > giving me a choice about it. I used to try and justify our behavior
> >> >> > but in  the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense of shame
> >> >> > and anger, but I could never figure out why. Since then I have
> >> >> > learned
> >> >> > about self-perception theory in psychology classes and I think I
> >> >> > understand why it bothers me (and many of
> >> >> > us) so much. Basically, self-perception theory posits that we draw
> >> >> > conclusions about ourselves by observing our own behavior. I think
> >> >> > whenever I used my blindness as a reason to get a guest pass and
> >> >> > skip
> >> >> > the line, it made me start to see myself as a handicapped or
> >> >> > crippled
> >> >> > person, which was very upsetting. For some people who have trouble
> >> >> > standing for long periods of time, or who have guide dogs who get
> >> >> > uncomfortable standing out in the sun, cutting in line seems
> >> >> > legitimate. But if we can physically handle the lines, accepting the
> >> >> > special passes doesn't do us any real favors. I insist on standing
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > line with everyone else because I want to see myself (and my fellow
> >> >> > blind friends) as strong, healthy, normal people. I feel I have
> >> >> > little
> >> >> > to gain by skipping the lines, and much to lose in terms of
> >> >> > self-esteem and self-respect. I think every time we take an
> >> >> > accommodation, we need to think about what we are gaining from that
> >> >> > accommodation vs. what we are potentially losing in terms of
> >> >> > normalcy.
> >> >> > If an accommodation like a piece of technology is  truly necessary,
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > will give enough benefit that it's worth the self-esteem hit. But if
> >> >> > an accommodation isn't really needed, I think we have more to lose
> >> >> > than we have to gain by accepting it. For this same reason I also do
> >> >> > not write off blindness as a reason to claim a tax deduction.
> >> >> > I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required to
> >> >> > pay
> >> >> > taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income bracket
> >> >> > makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the world.
> >> >> > There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same
> >> >> > rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the extra
> >> >> > responsibilities. If we want to be allowed to ride amusement park
> >> >> > rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in line.
> >> >> > It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on equal
> >> >> > treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed message
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a
> >> >> > professor's
> >> >> > letter of recommendation.
> >> >> > Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is a
> >> >> > legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
> >> >> > Arielle
> >> >> >
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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> >> >>
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