[nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public colleges?

Sat Dec 7 16:33:30 UTC 2013

Brandon,

What I am going to write here is not meant to say what I feel is fair or unfair, it is simply what I have observed as a student.  I majored in math many years 
ago and I minored in German.  Both provided challenges and often were visual in nature.  One thing that I had to learn as a blind person is that it was not 
necessary to get every bit of information that others were getting through their eyes to do well in those classes.  In some cases, I got information in 
different ways, but in some cases, words were reinforced with pictures and if I paid close attention to what was said, the pictures were less important.  I 
can't say that I never missed something using this approach, but the effort that I would have made to get every blackboard math example, for instance, 
would have taken enough time that it may well have affected my grade negatively elsewhere.  What I am saying is that you have to try to sort out what 
you really need to do well rather than thinking that anything anyone gets that you do not get means you will do worse.  The more support people you have 
to pay for and coordinate the more time you are going to have to spend on that instead of your course work.  For one thing, you could look for alternatives 
for hiring a note-taker.  While I think braille is the best option to take my own notes, there are other options now that also might work.  There is a lot in your 
note that could stimulate some interesting discussion, but it might be necessary to understand more about your situation.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 08:00:21 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:

>Hello,
>I know I would be fantastic in the class if I could see the materials 
>and a quick description in class doesn't cut it, after all, a picture is 
>worth a thousand words.
>I love languages and I'm really really good at them. I just don't mesh 
>with the teacher's style of teaching. I need both in class and out of 
>class comprehension work with someone in order for me to figure out what 
>the teacher said that day. I am in the top 15% GPA at my school, and I 
>never have needed tutors for any classes at this college before. I know 
>how I learn and work, and what I get out of this class is maybe 10% of 
>the information I should be getting.
>The school doesn't offer language tutors in any way shape or form.
>Also, I asked for a note taker and not only am I not able to read that 
>paper they give the students, so they would have to put it onto a 
>computer, but for a quarter the student gets payed $45. I wouldn't fix 
>up my notes every class for $45. There is around 6 pages for each 
>class... When I asked, no one wanted to be a note-taker.
>The teacher's office hours are during another class that I have and the 
>student study group meets during that other class as well, so I haven't 
>been able to attend any of those. I have met with the teacher and I did 
>meet with the head of the study group twice, but I still can't speak 
>enough french to do well on the final. I'm taking this class for the 
>next 2 quarters and I need to take the class that is during the 
>teacher's office hours the next 2 quarters as well.
>How much does a tutor charge? I personally have sworn never to work for 
>the government because it is so painful to get a pittance. Because the 
>tutor is also my in-class aid and spells words for me very slowly and 
>tells me briefly what the pictures are, I'm not sure if that would count 
>in the same rate?

>Currently we have a really advanced student in the class who has been 
>working as my aid and who I have met with twice outside of class. But I 
>need more meeting time outside of class to ask her what she meant by a 
>word and to see if I got all the words right and to see if I missed 
>anything.
>Considering the class meets 4 hours a week and minimum wage is over $8 
>an hour, I would be paying her $320+ for the quarter just to be my 
>in-class aid.
>If I then payed for her out of class, that would be even more.
>How do other people factor this?
>Thanks,

>Brandon Keith Biggs

>On 12/7/2013 2:44 AM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Your college is required to provide you with accommodations, but they can choose how to do so. For example, providing you with a test online instead 
of having someone read it to you.
>> If they feel that you can access the materials through some other means, then they may not provide an actual person to age.
>>
>> I had a similar experience at my college, that is also state-funded.
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or tutor for me in a 
language class. In my last college I had aids for all my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as hard and both colleges are state 
colleges.
>>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>> This is from:
>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>
>>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" 
any program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance"
>>>
>>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures discrimination?
>>>
>>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to that provided others,"
>>>
>>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be able to ask 
the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the materiel enough to ask questions.
>>>
>>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those provided to 
others."
>>>
>>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely manor that 
helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>>>
>>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the same result, 
gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of achievement as other students."
>>>
>>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid to both 
grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded wrong because the teacher 
was spelling too fast on the board.
>>>
>>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the objectives of the education program"
>>>
>>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>>
>>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or 
providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>>
>>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>>
>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>
>>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please let me know. 
Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
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