[nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

Fri May 3 14:38:35 UTC 2013

Kirt, I definitely see your point. I guess I didn't explain 
myself fully enough. For mathematical things and tacticle 
graphics, paper braille is definitely necessary. But Helga seemed 
more concerned with getting English books and novels in paper 
braille, and that was what I was arguing against. My argument was 
also mainly for the workplace. I guess it could happen, but I 
can't see myself doing systems of equations in the 
workplace...thank God!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 3 May 2013 01:19:37 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

Sophie,
  I disagree with you.  Slightly.  When working withlong 
devision,
multivariable augmented matrices, tables with over fifteen 
collums
and/or rows, synthetic substitution, synthetic devision, systems 
of
equasions with more than three variables...paper braille is 
definitely
not obsce+leete.  Try doing all that on a single-line refreshable
braille display, and I think you'll probably find yourself 
agreeing
with me.

On 5/2/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm getting a 40 sell. Is that what you have?

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Kaiti Shelton
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:42 AM
 To: dburke at cocenter.org; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

 Hi all,

 On a more general academic note, it is also better for most 
people most of
 the time to use the braille display simply because it is more 
convenient
 then shlepping around volumes upon volumes of braille books.  
Sophie
 brought
 up an excellent point; the world is quickly moving away from 
paper, (even
 sighted people too, that's why the post offices are in so much 
trouble as
 of
 recent years).  I can also say from experience that carrying a 
sub five
 pound notetaker around along with a few flashdrives or sd cards 
is a lot
 more feasible than carrying around a backpack stuffed with 
braille.  I
 don't
 miss the days from high school when I had multiple volumes of 
math books, a
 Genetics book that we loaned from APH for my Genetics class, 
Psychology
 textbooks also in hardcopy braille from APH, and music theory 
textbooks
 from
 NLS.  Granted, all those subjects except for psychology warrant 
the use of
 hardcopy braille, but I don't know what I would have done if I 
had embossed
 history and English textbooks on top of the ones I already had.  
I, and my
 back, really appreciate the lighter backpack I have now that my 
college ds
 office just makes electronic files for me which I can read from 
my computer
 with Jaws or on my BrailleSense.  I'm also a huge stickler about 
actually
 reading braille as opposed to listening to someone else read it 
all the
 time
 too, (with the exception of textbooks since it's convenient to 
read and
 fill
 out homework or notes as you go on a laptop), but I can say at 
least from
 my
 experiences that there isn't a major difference other than size 
and weight
 in using a refreshable display instead of embossed braille.

 Hope this helps.

 On 5/2/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
 Mr. Biggs thank you for your comment about poetry in Braille.  I
 confess that is one of my personal passions, and the only 
effective
 way to read poetry for a blind person is in Braille.  Certainly 
not a
 recording from Learning Ally or a PDF with JAWS.  Again an 
excellent
 argument in favor of a more flexible format that can be 
converted to
 Braille or read with a Braille display.

 While there are great advantages to reading poetry with paper 
Braille,
 I have read the vast majority of it as blind person on a 
refreshable
 Braille display.

 There are a couple of advantages of doing so, I think, as a 
student.
 First,
 I used rich text files and brf files.  These are fairly generic 
and
 work on any note taker or in any platform or word processor.  
But you
 can also make notes or annotations in the text if you are so 
inclined.

 Best,
 Dan

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Brandon
 Keith Biggs
 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:06 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

 Hello,
 Poetry is probably the only class you will want to consider 
reading
 the words in a hard copy. The refreshable Braille display is 
perfectly
 built for continuous reading. If you are a musician, in 
particular a
 vocalist, I would say you would really want to use an embosser, 
but
 that is only because in order to read one line of music, one 
needs to
 read 3 lines or more at the same time. But even still there are 
people
 who manage to use a Braille display for that.
 I have been rash and bought pieces of expensive equipment I have 
not
 used, so if I were you, I'd be very cautious and even manage to 
try
 out the equipment for a week or so to see how you like it. If 
you are
 going to be reading the book once, then placing it on your 
bookshelf,
 embossed books will become very cumbersome very fast.
 Thanks,

 Brandon Keith Biggs
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Sophie Trist
 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 1:27 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

 Helga, in addition to agreeing with everything Kirt said, I also
 believe there's another extremely relevant reason why you should 
try
 reading with the braillenote's display. Paper braille is 
becoming
 obsolete. I may get some flack on the list for this, but it is 
true.
 I'm a sophomore in high school, and for the past two years or 
so, more
 and more of my assignments have either been emailed to me or put 
on a
 flash drive. The world is moving away from paper (well, the 
blind
 world, at least) and toward computers, and in your future place 
of
 employment, it would be very unrealistic to expect paper braille 
in
 anything. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, I'm just making a 
point.

 Cheers from your fellow future English major, Sophie

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 To: dburke at cocenter.org, National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 2 May 2013 
10:42:41
 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

 Helga,
   I'd personally try to read your books with the refreshable 
braille
 display first.  There are two reasons for this.  First, you 
might
 discover that the braille note refreshable braille display does, 
in
 fact, work for you...in which case you won't need an embosser at 
all
 for the vast majority of things; advanced math and some few 
science
 classes being the exception, perhaps.  Second, and perhaps more
 relivant to you, your rehab counselor will probably ask you why 
you
 can't just use the braille note braille display for your braille
 reading.  Having become familiar with the refreshable braille, 
you
 will be more able to provide adequett justification for why you 
need
 an embosser instead of just the braille note.
   Hope that helps,
 Kirt

 On 5/2/13, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
 If I may offer some information even though I'm not a student ..  
I
 worked for a Ds office for many years, and for the last number 
of
 years I supervised the alternate formats aspect of the office.

 First, have you signed up for Bookshare? There are lots of text 
books
 available in electronic formats that your Braille note can read, 
or
 that can be read on your iPhone or with JAWS.

 Next Helga, if Bookshare doesn't have your texts your DS office 
may
 need to give you a better format.  They would need to do that f
 Braille is your preferred format and there is a compelling 
reason that
 PDF isn't good enough.  That English is your second language and 
that
 your major requires reading and comprehending complex literature 
(and
 what major doesn't?), is a compelling argument in my opinion.  
You
 need to make that clear to the DS office, but you will very 
likely
 have to push it if you really want it.
 They can easily give you a MS Word format, for example, if the 
text is
 not available at Bookshare.  But you will have a good bit of 
work
 ahead of you turning a PDF into any kind of Braille document.

 Personally, I think that PDF is a terrible format for just about
 anything.

 With a Word file, you can do a couple of things.  Of course you 
could
 read it with your note taker's refreshable Braille display.  It 
is
 likely that the DS office will stand their ground on that and 
not offer
 paper Braille.
 With a Word file you could also use Duxbury and print your own 
paper
 Braille, which you have obviously thought about.  But you may 
need to
 press the DS office by looking at campus options for due process 
- in
 other words, a complaint - if they don't agree to provide you 
with a
 format other than PDF.

 And the other thing is that Voc Rehab's excuse that embossers 
are
 expensive just isn't good enough.  Your reasons for having one 
are
 pretty good.  If they are to deny this bit of technology, they 
need to
 do so on the basis that it isn't related to your vocational 
goal.
 They can't say it's too expensive once you are already in an
 Individualized Plan for Employment.
 Again, you will likely have to push this.  You can start by 
asking
 your VR counselor for information on your rights to appeal. This 
is
 something they are required to provide.

 Good luck!

 Best,

 Dan

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Helga
 Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:50 PM
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Printer and Dux Bury Program

 Hi all, this is Helga. I just
 would like to ask you guys, Do you know where can I get a Dux 
Bury
 program and a Braille printer that is compatible with the 
BrailleNote
 apex for a cheap price? The Reason I'm asking is because I like 
to
 read Braille because is my prefer way of reading especially when 
I'm
 reading stories that are hard to understand the wording. I'm 
actually
 doing an English major where I need to take Literature classes 
that
 involve a lot of reading.
 Actually,
 this semester I took American Literature before 1865, and it was 
very
 challenging for me because the only accessable format of the 
Book
 that DSS provided me was PDF format, and and I got a audio cd 
from
 Learning Ally. It was helpful, but not enough to understand the
 stories since my first Language is not English, even though I 
speak
 it, I'm still working on my comprehension of words. I also 
talked to
 my DBS counceler about this and she told me that she would not 
buy me
 the Braille printer because is very expensive. I really Think a
 Braille paper copy of a reading will really help me a lot since 
I'm
 thinking in taking American Literature after
 1865 in the
 Fall semester.
 Thank you guys for listening to me. I really appreciate it. God 
bless!
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 --
 Kaiti

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