[nabs-l] is there any place for schools for the blind?

Mon Nov 3 07:35:54 UTC 2014

Hey! Jorge!, this is Helga! Can you write me off list or text me my friend! 
It's a long time that we don't talk! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so 
much and God bless!
P.S. Sorry all! for writing an off topic message, IAgain I apologize.

Helga Schreiber

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-----Original Message----- 
From: Jorge Paez via nabs-l
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:36 PM
To: Suzanne Germano ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Arielle Silverman
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] is there any place for schools for the blind?

Good evening all:
I must say, I've also noticed the trend.
There are several points to consider there though.
First of all, most of these kids are treated as blind first,
intellectually challenged second.
This is not directly related to us, but it would be interesting to
know how that assumption is made--e.g. that the blindness is the
primary disability.
The reason I said schools for the blind specifically is because there
are schools, such as the Lavell school in New York City that is
specially designed to provide the environment required for the
academic development of intellectually challenged children.
So of course I'm aware most of these kids would not be able to attend
public school, however, when I speak of "schools for the blind" or
"the blind" in this case I'm talking about the blind, not taking into
account those who have an intellectual disability, primarily because
then the discussion gets a lot harder and it would be impossible to
talk about that on a list like this one since the intellectual
disabilities affect different people in different ways, and cases
would have to be analyzed on a person by person basis. (ASD is an
example of one such group of what are generally considered
intellectual disabilities)
So, I meant specifically for the blind who do not have a secondary
disability or where its mild enough they can coexist in mainstream
society.
As far as the summer camp experiences though, I would agree that
something like that is definitely valuable.
However, this discussion is mostly centered on schools that are
specifically 12-month schools for the blind.

Jorge

On 11/2/14, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I had Arielle's experience. I went to public and Catholics schools but
> every summer I went to a summer programs for visually impaired. It was
> through our public schools. I had a very difficult time socially in public
> school. I was teased daily most of my life. I am legally blind so i was
> teased for being blind and teased for "pretending" to be blind. I was
> miserable. Having the summer program to meet others who were legally blind
> and totally blind filled that gap. I am still friends now at age 50 with
> someone I met in first grade at the summer program. There were time I felt
> i was such an outcast thta I wished I was going to a school for the blind.
>
> I am in college now and I find the social situation to be much better.
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> This is an excellent question and I see a few points worth considering.
>> First, most kids who attend schools for the blind nowadays have
>> intellectual disabilities. I'm not sure this trend is a good thing. If
>> someone is blind and also has an intellectual disability, sending them
>> to a blind school is treating their blindness like the primary
>> disability when it's not. I've always wondered if the education these
>> kids get at the blind schools really addresses their educational needs
>> as well as a special ed program for intellectual disabilities could.
>> It also adversely affects the quality of learning for kids who are
>> only blind.
>> Second, a lot of people say that a mainstreamed environment is a
>> better place to learn social skills. That wasn't my experience. I
>> attended public school but went to summer camp and weekend activities
>> with local blind kids from ages 9 to 17. Like others have described, I
>> had trouble making friends in public school. Sighted kids usually
>> ignored me and didn't much care how I behaved socially. However, other
>> blind kids not only were willing to be my friend, but they would tease
>> me and give me a hard time if I did things that bothered them. When I
>> think about my friendships now and how I interact with people, I can
>> trace most of what I've learned back to my interactions with other
>> blind people. For example, I had a blind best friend for several
>> years, who eventually cut off the friendship, and this taught me a ton
>> about how to be a good friend and keep my friendships from getting in
>> trouble. From ages 12 to 24, all my encounters with romance, crushing,
>> flirting, dating and breaking up involved other blind people. If I
>> hadn't had the company of other blind people, I wouldn't have had any
>> of those experiences to learn and grow from. I know some folks are
>> very happy and successful without ever befriending a blind person, but
>> I don't like the assumption that interaction with sighted people is
>> the only or the best way to become socially competent. The best way to
>> develop social skills is just to have social opportunities be they
>> with sighted, blind or both.
>> That said, I am grateful for my public school education because it was
>> academically challenging. Unfortunately, some schools and some
>> families still have low expectations. In these cases, a school for the
>> blind may be needed to provide essential Braille training or to set
>> higher expectations. I don't think the schools should pull young
>> children to live there away from their families, and I think that most
>> kids' attendance at these schools should probably be limited to a few
>> years. I'd also love to see more summer enrichment programs that could
>> help blind kids have the social opportunities I had while still being
>> mainstreamed. I don't support closing the schools down completely
>> because I think that if they can help even a few families who have no
>> other resources, they are worth having.
>> Arielle
>>
>>
>> On 11/2/14, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > Good evening,
>> >
>> >   Despite all this new fangled tech stuff, think about it, has either
>> > our relative position within the social system, or to exceptional
>> > opportunity really underwent all that much of a transformation? I
>> > mean, for you to queery if blind schools even have a relevance within
>> > I think you said today's society? Hell yes they do! Don't you agree
>> > that if an institution say, succeeds in helping a single student,
>> > then yes, it does have a place! Schools for the blind do in fact
>> > serve people. As many have said, blind people with other problems.
>> > Are you gonna deny such people access to education for a simple fact
>> > of it's not squeezing into your model of educating blind people?
>> > Don't mean to be overly harsh but, remember not to assume ALL blind
>> > people are made of the same stuff!
>> > for today, Car
>> >
>> >
>> > .
>> >>So, today I was thinking about a rather interesting question which
>> >>came to my mind, and which I've thought about numerous times before,
>> >>that being, the place for schools for the blind in today's society.
>> >>A few years ago, there was a huge news story that broke in New York
>> >>about protesters going to Lavel and NYISE (New York Institute for
>> >>Special Ed) to speak out in support of the 2 schools, which then
>> >>Governor Quomo I believe it was wanted to cut from the state budget
>> >>and close.
>> >>And that left me wondering,
>> >>as someone who spent most of his elementary years at the NYISE, and
>> >>the rest of my term in regular public school, finishing 4th and 5th
>> >>grade at a local school and going on to do my entire post-secondary
>> >>education in public schools, what exactly did I think?
>> >>And to be honest, I don't quite have an answer myself.
>> >>I started 4th grade with the Braille Lite and APH's Braille & Speak,
>> >>so obviously this is quite a while back.
>> >>But I remember in those early years I was shocked at all this tech
>> >>that I just was not allowed to use in the school for the blind.
>> >>Yet the lite had its problems, as anyone who's used one probably
>> >>knows. For one thing, mine kept crashing every 4 to 7 weeks on a
>> >>constant schedule and promptly deleting my entire file system. Not
>> >>good, to say the least.
>> >>But technology has obviously progressed a lot since then, wih the
>> >>Braille Note Apex being extremely stable and solid. I've never had a
>> >>Braille Note crash, at least never as badly as what used to happen
>> >>with the braille lites.
>> >>And now with the advance of technology some argue, and I share this
>> >>point, that within a few years all we'll really need are braille
>> >>displays.
>> >>I mean we have JAWS, System Access, Window Eyes, NVDA, Dolfin, and
>> >>Super Nova for Windows--Winow Eyes and NVDA are both now free, System
>> >>Access now extremely affordable, for about $250 with a package that
>> >>gives you way more then just a screenreader, and most if not all have
>> >>braille display support built in.
>> >>And with VoiceOver on the Mac and accessible versions of other
>> >>platforms such as Linux there is no system that is not accessible, and
>> >>if there is such a system, there are now ways which are widely known
>> >>to make them accessible.
>> >>Granted we still have the applications within those systems (Google
>> >>apps for example) which can still present challenges but that's just a
>> >>piece of what has become a mostly accessible digital ecosystem.
>> >>So, where do you think, if anywhere, do schools for the blind fit?
>> >>Note that this isn't a chriticism of schools for the blind--I studied
>> >>at one, like I said, and they did have their advantages at the time
>> >>and perhaps still have in certain circumstances,
>> >>but given that they were chiefly in existence to provide an education
>> >>to the blind, an education that is now for the most part accessible to
>> >>us outside of those limits, do we need schools for the blind anymore?
>> >>I myself don't have a position one way or another, so I'm very
>> >>interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Jorge A. Paez
>> >>
>> >>LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
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-- 
Jorge A. Paez

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994

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