[nabs-l] is there any place for schools for the blind?

Mon Nov 3 21:01:00 UTC 2014

Hi all,

I know that the Ohio State School for the Blind is an interesting
case.  I know blind people who have attended their local schools, as
well as people who attended the school for the blind.  My parents were
discouraged from enrolling me in the school for the blind because
others saw that I could thrive academically, and I am thankful to have
had an academically challenging, college-prep curriculum complete with
AP courses.  I do think the expectations of the public school system
helped me be as ready for college as I was.

That being said, I think that a lot of my social interaction did come
from experiences with other blind people.  I had friends in middle
school, but by high school I didn't talk to people much.  I didn't
feel like they understood me very well, or could relate to me, even if
I talked to someone who was also on the Academic Quiz Team, or
Marching Band, or in one of my honors or AP classes.  I would have
been less happy had I not attended summer programs with other blind
students.

That being said, I see two sides to the coin as far as the Ohio State
School for the Blind is concerned.  The graduates I've seen come out
of the program who are around my age are mostly lacking in
independence skills.  They don't have the orientation and mobility
skills that I or my friends who have attended public schools do.
Their braille skills are good, but then again so are those of the
public school kids.  They don't seem to have any extreme advantages in
technology either.  They'e definitely less college-ready.  I can't
speak as a student since I never went there, but from an outsider's
point of view, at least with this particular school, I have to
question the notion that the teachers really do understand that
blindness doesn't have to limit a student's potential, and that the
students are capable of going onto college.  Why else would the
expectations be so much lower than those of the public school kids?
Why else is OSSB exempt from mandatory state testing, including the
Ohio Graduation Test which all Ohio high school students are supposed
to earn a 40% or higher in their sophomore year to pass?  I understand
that those with intellectual disabilities are exempt, and they were at
my school too, but the entire school for the blind isn't dealing with
dual diagnosis of blindness and intellectual disability.  Why should
the students who are fully capable of taking the test not be required
to?  Why should they be held back?

I saw a facebook post that really troubled me a few weeks ago.  As the
president of my state student division, I'm facebook friends with a
lot of students and parents from the parents division.  One mother,
who sent her son to OSSB for his education, said something like,
"Grateful to have a job I can do on the go.  Guiding Joe Blow to his
classrooms.  #SightedGuide."  This status was incredible to me.  You
would think that attending the school for the blind would have given
this kid the skills to travel independently, and that an orientation
and mobility instructor would have worked with him to make sure he
knew where the academic buildings were in advance---at least, this is
what my friends who went to public schools and I did when we started
college.  This mom seemed almost proud of the fact that she was
shepherding her son from room to room.  More than anything else, I
felt bad for the kid.  No college student wants to start off the year
having their mom take them from place to place.  That ruins social
interactions and prevents students from seeing the blind kid as an
equal from the get go.

I am not attacking schools for the blind in general, I'm just noting
that those who I have seen graduate from the school in my state seem
to be behind the mainstreamed blind students.  I do think that the
schools are necessary, because I do know that not all mainstreamed
kids get the attention they need.  For example, we found that one of
our BELL kids was reading several grade levels below ehere he should
be because he couldn't see the print, and wasn't being given the
braille instruction he needs.  He's now attending the school for the
blind, and is getting braille.  Granted, he also has some additional
cognitive disabilities, but even if he didn't OSSB might be the only
way for him to get braille in his case.  I just seriously dquestion
how well the teachers there really understand blindness, and how
capable they really perceive their students to be in the real world.

On 11/3/14, Helga  via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hey! Jorge!, this is Helga! Can you write me off list or text me my friend!
>
> It's a long time that we don't talk! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so
> much and God bless!
> P.S. Sorry all! for writing an off topic message, IAgain I apologize.
>
>
>
> Helga Schreiber
>
> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind
>
> Students
> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT)
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research
>
> Phone: (561) 706-5950
> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
> Skype: helga.schreiber26
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever
>
> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jorge Paez via nabs-l
> Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:36 PM
> To: Suzanne Germano ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: Arielle Silverman
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] is there any place for schools for the blind?
>
> Good evening all:
> I must say, I've also noticed the trend.
> There are several points to consider there though.
> First of all, most of these kids are treated as blind first,
> intellectually challenged second.
> This is not directly related to us, but it would be interesting to
> know how that assumption is made--e.g. that the blindness is the
> primary disability.
> The reason I said schools for the blind specifically is because there
> are schools, such as the Lavell school in New York City that is
> specially designed to provide the environment required for the
> academic development of intellectually challenged children.
> So of course I'm aware most of these kids would not be able to attend
> public school, however, when I speak of "schools for the blind" or
> "the blind" in this case I'm talking about the blind, not taking into
> account those who have an intellectual disability, primarily because
> then the discussion gets a lot harder and it would be impossible to
> talk about that on a list like this one since the intellectual
> disabilities affect different people in different ways, and cases
> would have to be analyzed on a person by person basis. (ASD is an
> example of one such group of what are generally considered
> intellectual disabilities)
> So, I meant specifically for the blind who do not have a secondary
> disability or where its mild enough they can coexist in mainstream
> society.
> As far as the summer camp experiences though, I would agree that
> something like that is definitely valuable.
> However, this discussion is mostly centered on schools that are
> specifically 12-month schools for the blind.
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/2/14, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I had Arielle's experience. I went to public and Catholics schools but
>> every summer I went to a summer programs for visually impaired. It was
>> through our public schools. I had a very difficult time socially in
>> public
>> school. I was teased daily most of my life. I am legally blind so i was
>> teased for being blind and teased for "pretending" to be blind. I was
>> miserable. Having the summer program to meet others who were legally
>> blind
>> and totally blind filled that gap. I am still friends now at age 50 with
>> someone I met in first grade at the summer program. There were time I
>> felt
>> i was such an outcast thta I wished I was going to a school for the
>> blind.
>>
>> I am in college now and I find the social situation to be much better.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> This is an excellent question and I see a few points worth considering.
>>> First, most kids who attend schools for the blind nowadays have
>>> intellectual disabilities. I'm not sure this trend is a good thing. If
>>> someone is blind and also has an intellectual disability, sending them
>>> to a blind school is treating their blindness like the primary
>>> disability when it's not. I've always wondered if the education these
>>> kids get at the blind schools really addresses their educational needs
>>> as well as a special ed program for intellectual disabilities could.
>>> It also adversely affects the quality of learning for kids who are
>>> only blind.
>>> Second, a lot of people say that a mainstreamed environment is a
>>> better place to learn social skills. That wasn't my experience. I
>>> attended public school but went to summer camp and weekend activities
>>> with local blind kids from ages 9 to 17. Like others have described, I
>>> had trouble making friends in public school. Sighted kids usually
>>> ignored me and didn't much care how I behaved socially. However, other
>>> blind kids not only were willing to be my friend, but they would tease
>>> me and give me a hard time if I did things that bothered them. When I
>>> think about my friendships now and how I interact with people, I can
>>> trace most of what I've learned back to my interactions with other
>>> blind people. For example, I had a blind best friend for several
>>> years, who eventually cut off the friendship, and this taught me a ton
>>> about how to be a good friend and keep my friendships from getting in
>>> trouble. From ages 12 to 24, all my encounters with romance, crushing,
>>> flirting, dating and breaking up involved other blind people. If I
>>> hadn't had the company of other blind people, I wouldn't have had any
>>> of those experiences to learn and grow from. I know some folks are
>>> very happy and successful without ever befriending a blind person, but
>>> I don't like the assumption that interaction with sighted people is
>>> the only or the best way to become socially competent. The best way to
>>> develop social skills is just to have social opportunities be they
>>> with sighted, blind or both.
>>> That said, I am grateful for my public school education because it was
>>> academically challenging. Unfortunately, some schools and some
>>> families still have low expectations. In these cases, a school for the
>>> blind may be needed to provide essential Braille training or to set
>>> higher expectations. I don't think the schools should pull young
>>> children to live there away from their families, and I think that most
>>> kids' attendance at these schools should probably be limited to a few
>>> years. I'd also love to see more summer enrichment programs that could
>>> help blind kids have the social opportunities I had while still being
>>> mainstreamed. I don't support closing the schools down completely
>>> because I think that if they can help even a few families who have no
>>> other resources, they are worth having.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/14, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> > Good evening,
>>> >
>>> >   Despite all this new fangled tech stuff, think about it, has either
>>> > our relative position within the social system, or to exceptional
>>> > opportunity really underwent all that much of a transformation? I
>>> > mean, for you to queery if blind schools even have a relevance within
>>> > I think you said today's society? Hell yes they do! Don't you agree
>>> > that if an institution say, succeeds in helping a single student,
>>> > then yes, it does have a place! Schools for the blind do in fact
>>> > serve people. As many have said, blind people with other problems.
>>> > Are you gonna deny such people access to education for a simple fact
>>> > of it's not squeezing into your model of educating blind people?
>>> > Don't mean to be overly harsh but, remember not to assume ALL blind
>>> > people are made of the same stuff!
>>> > for today, Car
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > .
>>> >>So, today I was thinking about a rather interesting question which
>>> >>came to my mind, and which I've thought about numerous times before,
>>> >>that being, the place for schools for the blind in today's society.
>>> >>A few years ago, there was a huge news story that broke in New York
>>> >>about protesters going to Lavel and NYISE (New York Institute for
>>> >>Special Ed) to speak out in support of the 2 schools, which then
>>> >>Governor Quomo I believe it was wanted to cut from the state budget
>>> >>and close.
>>> >>And that left me wondering,
>>> >>as someone who spent most of his elementary years at the NYISE, and
>>> >>the rest of my term in regular public school, finishing 4th and 5th
>>> >>grade at a local school and going on to do my entire post-secondary
>>> >>education in public schools, what exactly did I think?
>>> >>And to be honest, I don't quite have an answer myself.
>>> >>I started 4th grade with the Braille Lite and APH's Braille & Speak,
>>> >>so obviously this is quite a while back.
>>> >>But I remember in those early years I was shocked at all this tech
>>> >>that I just was not allowed to use in the school for the blind.
>>> >>Yet the lite had its problems, as anyone who's used one probably
>>> >>knows. For one thing, mine kept crashing every 4 to 7 weeks on a
>>> >>constant schedule and promptly deleting my entire file system. Not
>>> >>good, to say the least.
>>> >>But technology has obviously progressed a lot since then, wih the
>>> >>Braille Note Apex being extremely stable and solid. I've never had a
>>> >>Braille Note crash, at least never as badly as what used to happen
>>> >>with the braille lites.
>>> >>And now with the advance of technology some argue, and I share this
>>> >>point, that within a few years all we'll really need are braille
>>> >>displays.
>>> >>I mean we have JAWS, System Access, Window Eyes, NVDA, Dolfin, and
>>> >>Super Nova for Windows--Winow Eyes and NVDA are both now free, System
>>> >>Access now extremely affordable, for about $250 with a package that
>>> >>gives you way more then just a screenreader, and most if not all have
>>> >>braille display support built in.
>>> >>And with VoiceOver on the Mac and accessible versions of other
>>> >>platforms such as Linux there is no system that is not accessible, and
>>> >>if there is such a system, there are now ways which are widely known
>>> >>to make them accessible.
>>> >>Granted we still have the applications within those systems (Google
>>> >>apps for example) which can still present challenges but that's just a
>>> >>piece of what has become a mostly accessible digital ecosystem.
>>> >>So, where do you think, if anywhere, do schools for the blind fit?
>>> >>Note that this isn't a chriticism of schools for the blind--I studied
>>> >>at one, like I said, and they did have their advantages at the time
>>> >>and perhaps still have in certain circumstances,
>>> >>but given that they were chiefly in existence to provide an education
>>> >>to the blind, an education that is now for the most part accessible to
>>> >>us outside of those limits, do we need schools for the blind anymore?
>>> >>I myself don't have a position one way or another, so I'm very
>>> >>interested in hearing your thoughts on this topic.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>Jorge A. Paez
>>> >>
>>> >>LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>>> >>
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>>> >
>>> >
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>
>
> --
> Jorge A. Paez
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jorgeapaez11994
>
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-- 
Kaiti