[nabs-l] NABS-L Digest, Vol 122, Issue 19
Annemarie
aec732 at msn.com
Wed Dec 21 14:46:15 UTC 2016
It depends what the schools policy is. The disability services office is usually the gate keeper so the school can maintain some sort of consistency of accommodations and proof of disability by students. Check and see what your school's policy is.
Thanks, Annemarie
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 21, 2016, at 7:01 AM, "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability Services
> (Ellana Crew)
> 2. Re: Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability Services
> (Arielle Silverman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 08:15:00 -0500
> From: Ellana Crew <eemcrew at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability
> Services
> Message-ID: <9B3A8808-B64A-4544-9456-BBB29960EBC6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Arielle,
>
> Thank you, this is been extremely helpful information. I do in fact carry a long white cane and have no difficulties with disclosing my disability, so it's nice to know that this part should not cause much of a problem. I have been hoping that this should not be a very difficult thing to do, especially as my method of working is very simple and universal and only really centered on having access to everything in an accessible digital format on my computer without anything else such as large print, braille, or extra time being needed. Do you know, however, if the teachers are still obligated by any kind of law or policy to grant me accommodations I request from them if I do not go through disability services and do choose to disclose my disability to them? My primary concern is the possibility of encountering a professor who refuses to work with me without that letter and them being in the legal right, or concerns that granting me accommodations without that letter could get the teacher into some sort of trouble or violation of the law or policy. Of course, if the professor does refuse without that letter I am certainly fine with operating on a case-by-case basis and giving them the letter and working that way at least for that particular class, but I would also like to know if they are legally allowed to refuse without the letter or what the professors are allowed and not allowed to do or authorize accommodation wise without that official letter. I don't believe they would likely have any restrictions as far as classroom accommodations, but when it comes to testing, given the nature of tests, I worry that they may not be allowed to make that call on their own when my method of testing involves using a computer because of rules to prevent cheating and such. Do you perhaps know anything about this, or know anybody else you could refer me to that does?
>
> Thank you again!
>
> Ellana Crew, Vice President
> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>
>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Arielle Silverman via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Again, most of the policies described above are intended to protect
>> students with hidden disabilities from being outed to their
>> professors. If you have a visible disability like blindness and are
>> willing to disclose it, however, this matter of anonymity is no longer
>> a problem.
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 12/19/16, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ellana,
>>> I firstly just want to commend you for being willing to take charge of
>>> your education by exploring a different way of getting things done
>>> when the disability services office is less than satisfactory. When I
>>> was in college, I decided midway through my degree to start taking my
>>> tests directly with professors instead of working with the disability
>>> office, for several reasons, but mainly because this process was
>>> simpler and less prone to error. I also liked that I could ask
>>> professors clarification questions just like any other student during
>>> a test.
>>> The short answer to your question is that many professors will
>>> accommodate you without the disability office's involvement, but you
>>> will want to check with them and be sure before you do anything
>>> drastic. If you are unable to get in touch with next semester's
>>> professors yet, you might consult an advisor or department head at
>>> your college to see if they have any formal requirements or policies
>>> about DSS involvement or use of accommodation letters. These letters
>>> are mainly necessary for people with invisible learning or health
>>> disabilities to prove that the disability is verified by a doctor. In
>>> the case of blindness, as long as you use a cane or other mobility aid
>>> that's visible, that proof thing shouldn't be an issue. Again, though,
>>> the culture may vary from school to school, so it would be good to
>>> check with professors or department heads first.
>>> Another option you might consider is to register with the DSS and get
>>> your letter, but just not ask for any testing accommodations. You
>>> could then go to your professor, show him or her the letter, and say
>>> that you have decided it would be easier for all involved to take your
>>> tests in the classroom on the computer, using the professor as a
>>> reader, or any other accommodation plans you have come up with.
>>> My experience, at least at university, has been that professors will
>>> usually agree to the accommodations that's the least work for them.
>>> Working with disability services can be as big of a nuisance for them
>>> as it is for us, so if we can offer professors an easier way to
>>> accommodate without all the extra hassle, they will usually agree to
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Best, Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 12/19/16, Elif Emir ?ks?z via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I agree what being said.
>>>> If you decide to talk to DSO, this may help you.
>>>> If you haven't seen this, please have a look.
>>>> https://nfb.org/self-advocacy-higher-education
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2016-12-18 16:04 GMT-05:00, Karl Martin Adam via NABS-L
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>:
>>>>> You have to go through DSS if you want accommodations. This is
>>>>> because its the job of DSS to verify that you have a disability
>>>>> and that the accommodation in question is reasonable for that
>>>>> disability. So if you ask a professor for an accommodation, what
>>>>> they will do (if they do what they're supposed to do) is to tell
>>>>> you to get a letter from DSS and get back to them. (This is why
>>>>> nearly every syllabus includes a line saying if you have a
>>>>> disability contact the DSS to arrange accommodations.) That
>>>>> being said, just because you get accommodations from DSS does not
>>>>> mean that you can't take tests in the classroom. Taking your
>>>>> test in the testing center is an accommodation, and you, of
>>>>> course, don't have to accept that accommodation. That being
>>>>> said, if you want accommodations like extra time or a reader,
>>>>> that isn't really compatible with taking your test in the
>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Ellana Crew via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> To: NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 13:03:51 -0500
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability
>>>>> Services
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a community college student about to start another semester
>>>>> of classes, but more recently, I have been thinking of breaking
>>>>> away from using the disability services office at school because
>>>>> of all of the troubles I have had in the past with DSS offices
>>>>> and mixups and failures on their end. However, before I decide to
>>>>> go through with this, I'd like to have some more information on
>>>>> what exactly I'm entitled to still as far as accommodations and
>>>>> the law if I choose not to go through disability services and
>>>>> give my professors the official letter requiring their
>>>>> compliance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anybody who may be able to give me a little information
>>>>> on if professors are still required to accommodate me reasonably
>>>>> if I do not go through disability services and give them an
>>>>> official letter from them, especially in regards to test taking?
>>>>> I am concerned that perhaps they may not be obligated to provide
>>>>> me any sort of accommodation at all without an official letter
>>>>> from disability services requiring them to, or that perhaps there
>>>>> is a limit on how much they are allowed to grant me, and
>>>>> especially if that limit is when it comes to tests.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am particularly interested in being able to take my tests in
>>>>> the classroom with the rest of the class instead of going through
>>>>> the hassle of coordinating a scheduled time in the testing center
>>>>> and dealing with more failures to properly prepare my test or not
>>>>> prepare my test in time for the scheduled appointment in the
>>>>> testing center, and being forced to automatically be at a
>>>>> disadvantage by having to take my test in a different setting
>>>>> while the rest of the class is able to take their test in the
>>>>> same environment in which they learn the information which has
>>>>> been proven many times to improve the persons ability to retrieve
>>>>> the information they learned in that environment, and I have
>>>>> known some people who have talk to the professors and been able
>>>>> to take their tests in their classrooms in this way, but I want
>>>>> to be sure that I would not be in violation of anything in that I
>>>>> know my rights when it comes to this if my professor does not
>>>>> know themselves if it is OK or is hesitant to work with me on
>>>>> this particular factor.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is anybody here who may be able to give me some useful
>>>>> information or connect me with somebody who may have that
>>>>> information, I would be incredibly grateful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ellana Crew, Vice President
>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>>>
>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
>>>>> the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
>>>>> raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
>>>>> create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can
>>>>> live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for NABS-L:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> NABS-L:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NABS-L:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NABS-L mailing list
>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NABS-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/eemcrew%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:18:14 -0500
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability
> Services
> Message-ID:
> <CALAYQJBWX6FDd9z5FE8L-v+zh8svpwb8qdZVOa8D4X5qqyE5xg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Ellana. I'm not as knowledgeable about the details of the law as
> some of the others on this list. I definitely think rules could vary
> from school to school. It might be good to find out if your school has
> a written policy on disability accommodations or alternative testing
> procedures somewhere. If they do, and the policy allows the student to
> make alternative testing arrangements more freely, you could appeal to
> that policy if any professors are resistant.
> Some schools put policies like this on their website. If yours
> doesn't, it might be best to try to speak with a dean or department
> head to find out what their policy is.
> If you are comfortable, you could also try just telling the staff at
> your disability office that you would like to explore other testing
> procedures (with the professor directly) and you just want to know if
> other students have done it this way. If they say no, you could still
> explore the option with professors directly, but if they say yes, then
> they might be willing to help ensure that you are permitted to take
> tests in your preferred format (in the classroom).
> My guess is that professors won't get in trouble for accommodating you
> in a way that you and they agree to mutually, but it's possible that a
> few professors might be worried about testing integrity and so might
> want you to test using equipment that's not your personal computer or
> notetaker. As you mentioned, if only a few professors have this worry,
> you can work with them on a case-by-case basis.
> Best, Arielle
>
>> On 12/20/16, Ellana Crew via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>>
>> Thank you, this is been extremely helpful information. I do in fact carry a
>> long white cane and have no difficulties with disclosing my disability, so
>> it's nice to know that this part should not cause much of a problem. I have
>> been hoping that this should not be a very difficult thing to do, especially
>> as my method of working is very simple and universal and only really
>> centered on having access to everything in an accessible digital format on
>> my computer without anything else such as large print, braille, or extra
>> time being needed. Do you know, however, if the teachers are still obligated
>> by any kind of law or policy to grant me accommodations I request from them
>> if I do not go through disability services and do choose to disclose my
>> disability to them? My primary concern is the possibility of encountering a
>> professor who refuses to work with me without that letter and them being in
>> the legal right, or concerns that granting me accommodations without that
>> letter could get the teacher into some sort of trouble or violation of the
>> law or policy. Of course, if the professor does refuse without that letter I
>> am certainly fine with operating on a case-by-case basis and giving them the
>> letter and working that way at least for that particular class, but I would
>> also like to know if they are legally allowed to refuse without the letter
>> or what the professors are allowed and not allowed to do or authorize
>> accommodation wise without that official letter. I don't believe they would
>> likely have any restrictions as far as classroom accommodations, but when it
>> comes to testing, given the nature of tests, I worry that they may not be
>> allowed to make that call on their own when my method of testing involves
>> using a computer because of rules to prevent cheating and such. Do you
>> perhaps know anything about this, or know anybody else you could refer me to
>> that does?
>>
>> Thank you again!
>>
>> Ellana Crew, Vice President
>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
>> expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles
>> between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want;
>> blindness is not what holds you back.
>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Arielle Silverman via NABS-L
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Again, most of the policies described above are intended to protect
>>> students with hidden disabilities from being outed to their
>>> professors. If you have a visible disability like blindness and are
>>> willing to disclose it, however, this matter of anonymity is no longer
>>> a problem.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 12/19/16, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Ellana,
>>>> I firstly just want to commend you for being willing to take charge of
>>>> your education by exploring a different way of getting things done
>>>> when the disability services office is less than satisfactory. When I
>>>> was in college, I decided midway through my degree to start taking my
>>>> tests directly with professors instead of working with the disability
>>>> office, for several reasons, but mainly because this process was
>>>> simpler and less prone to error. I also liked that I could ask
>>>> professors clarification questions just like any other student during
>>>> a test.
>>>> The short answer to your question is that many professors will
>>>> accommodate you without the disability office's involvement, but you
>>>> will want to check with them and be sure before you do anything
>>>> drastic. If you are unable to get in touch with next semester's
>>>> professors yet, you might consult an advisor or department head at
>>>> your college to see if they have any formal requirements or policies
>>>> about DSS involvement or use of accommodation letters. These letters
>>>> are mainly necessary for people with invisible learning or health
>>>> disabilities to prove that the disability is verified by a doctor. In
>>>> the case of blindness, as long as you use a cane or other mobility aid
>>>> that's visible, that proof thing shouldn't be an issue. Again, though,
>>>> the culture may vary from school to school, so it would be good to
>>>> check with professors or department heads first.
>>>> Another option you might consider is to register with the DSS and get
>>>> your letter, but just not ask for any testing accommodations. You
>>>> could then go to your professor, show him or her the letter, and say
>>>> that you have decided it would be easier for all involved to take your
>>>> tests in the classroom on the computer, using the professor as a
>>>> reader, or any other accommodation plans you have come up with.
>>>> My experience, at least at university, has been that professors will
>>>> usually agree to the accommodations that's the least work for them.
>>>> Working with disability services can be as big of a nuisance for them
>>>> as it is for us, so if we can offer professors an easier way to
>>>> accommodate without all the extra hassle, they will usually agree to
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Best, Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/19/16, Elif Emir ?ks?z via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> I agree what being said.
>>>>> If you decide to talk to DSO, this may help you.
>>>>> If you haven't seen this, please have a look.
>>>>> https://nfb.org/self-advocacy-higher-education
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-12-18 16:04 GMT-05:00, Karl Martin Adam via NABS-L
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>:
>>>>>> You have to go through DSS if you want accommodations. This is
>>>>>> because its the job of DSS to verify that you have a disability
>>>>>> and that the accommodation in question is reasonable for that
>>>>>> disability. So if you ask a professor for an accommodation, what
>>>>>> they will do (if they do what they're supposed to do) is to tell
>>>>>> you to get a letter from DSS and get back to them. (This is why
>>>>>> nearly every syllabus includes a line saying if you have a
>>>>>> disability contact the DSS to arrange accommodations.) That
>>>>>> being said, just because you get accommodations from DSS does not
>>>>>> mean that you can't take tests in the classroom. Taking your
>>>>>> test in the testing center is an accommodation, and you, of
>>>>>> course, don't have to accept that accommodation. That being
>>>>>> said, if you want accommodations like extra time or a reader,
>>>>>> that isn't really compatible with taking your test in the
>>>>>> classroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH,
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Ellana Crew via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To: NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 13:03:51 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommodation Rights and Not Using Disability
>>>>>> Services
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a community college student about to start another semester
>>>>>> of classes, but more recently, I have been thinking of breaking
>>>>>> away from using the disability services office at school because
>>>>>> of all of the troubles I have had in the past with DSS offices
>>>>>> and mixups and failures on their end. However, before I decide to
>>>>>> go through with this, I'd like to have some more information on
>>>>>> what exactly I'm entitled to still as far as accommodations and
>>>>>> the law if I choose not to go through disability services and
>>>>>> give my professors the official letter requiring their
>>>>>> compliance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there anybody who may be able to give me a little information
>>>>>> on if professors are still required to accommodate me reasonably
>>>>>> if I do not go through disability services and give them an
>>>>>> official letter from them, especially in regards to test taking?
>>>>>> I am concerned that perhaps they may not be obligated to provide
>>>>>> me any sort of accommodation at all without an official letter
>>>>>> from disability services requiring them to, or that perhaps there
>>>>>> is a limit on how much they are allowed to grant me, and
>>>>>> especially if that limit is when it comes to tests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am particularly interested in being able to take my tests in
>>>>>> the classroom with the rest of the class instead of going through
>>>>>> the hassle of coordinating a scheduled time in the testing center
>>>>>> and dealing with more failures to properly prepare my test or not
>>>>>> prepare my test in time for the scheduled appointment in the
>>>>>> testing center, and being forced to automatically be at a
>>>>>> disadvantage by having to take my test in a different setting
>>>>>> while the rest of the class is able to take their test in the
>>>>>> same environment in which they learn the information which has
>>>>>> been proven many times to improve the persons ability to retrieve
>>>>>> the information they learned in that environment, and I have
>>>>>> known some people who have talk to the professors and been able
>>>>>> to take their tests in their classrooms in this way, but I want
>>>>>> to be sure that I would not be in violation of anything in that I
>>>>>> know my rights when it comes to this if my professor does not
>>>>>> know themselves if it is OK or is hesitant to work with me on
>>>>>> this particular factor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there is anybody here who may be able to give me some useful
>>>>>> information or connect me with somebody who may have that
>>>>>> information, I would be incredibly grateful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ellana Crew, Vice President
>>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not
>>>>>> the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we
>>>>>> raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations
>>>>>> create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can
>>>>>> live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for NABS-L:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> NABS-L:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> NABS-L:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NABS-L mailing list
>>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NABS-L:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/eemcrew%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NABS-L mailing list
>> NABS-L at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NABS-L:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
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>
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