[nabs-l] review of social skills in training centers

Vejas alpineimagination at gmail.com
Wed Sep 28 18:30:03 UTC 2016


Please check thread dates before posting. This thread was written in August 2014, so a debate/discussion about this thread is unnecessary.


> On Sep 28, 2016, at 10:15, Carly Mihalakis via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Beth,
> 
> So narrow, so limiting, how can someone anticipate the warants of every single situation?
> CarAt 08:42 PM 8/14/2014, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l wrote:
>> Talking bad is a combination of things, in my opinion.  Bashing, use of bad language/words such as, dare I say it, the F word, the N word, etc., and talking rebeliously to people if you are under eighteen.  That's talking bad.
>> Beth
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> To: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:24:01 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] review of social skills in training centers
>> 
>> I may regret this but I feel the desire to ask: What does "talking
>> bad" entail? Using bad grammar? Sounding uneducated?
>> I worry that in these kinds of discussions we are conflating "social
>> skills" with value judgments about how educated or decent people
>> should behave. It is not really the place of a training center for
>> adults to make these kinds of value judgments.
>> 
>> Further, cigarette smoking, drinking and consensual sex are all legal,
>> allowable activities for adults to engage in. They can lead to harm
>> but only if they are not done responsibly. I don't think it is
>> appropriate for a training center for adults to deny students these
>> basic freedoms or try to babysit students, but they should do whatever
>> they can to ensure that such freedoms don't cause harm to others. From
>> what I've seen I think the NFB centers are pretty good at walking that
>> line. But there might be occasional times when a harm occurs or
>> something gets out of hand despite the center staff's efforts to
>> enforce rules of conduct. The same risk applies at a college or any
>> other place where adults freely reside. If that happens, I hope the
>> individuals involved discuss their concerns with the center and that
>> the center responds appropriately.
>> 
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 8/14/14, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello Antonio and all,
>> 
>> Given the fact that we are currently discussing what is and is not
>> appropriate for this email list, I believe it would be best for us not to
>> discuss this topic on the email list. I can see this topic getting out of
>> hand rather easily as well as offending people easily by reporting
>> inaccurate myths and facts about rape and sexual assault. While I believe
>> it
>> is important for people to understand the real facts about rape and sexual
>> assault, I do not believe this discussion should take place on this email
>> list.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> Elizabeth
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio
>> Guimaraes via nabs-l
>> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:28 AM
>> To: Carly Mihalakis; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] review of social skills in training centers
>> 
>> Carly,
>> 
>> I am not a woman, so the following comment may be taken with a grain of
>> salt.
>> 
>> I have not read any studies, but I do not believe most, let's say over 50
>> percent of women, are raped.
>> 
>> To say that most women are raped may be overstating the fact a bit.
>> 
>> You also say that in your opinion it is better that rape happens "within a
>> more or less controlled environment where some support is available."
>> 
>> Many cases of rape go unreported because the victim feels nothing will be
>> done, or that se will be retaliated against.
>> 
>> Rape happens in colleges and universities, which qualify as very controlled
>> environments, but most media accounts of rape cases at universities I hear
>> tell a story different from a place of support to rape victims.
>> 
>> There is no easy answer to treating rape epidemic.
>> 
>> However, I am not positive any organization, including a training center,
>> wants to acknowledge and address rape in a satisfactory way. That stuff is
>> often best left alone, and swept under the rug from the perspective of the
>> service provider, be it a training center, or a university.
>> 
>> I question whether any organization adequately supports rape victims for
>> these reasons.
>> 
>> As for rape victims, I believe it is important to find the appropriate
>> authorities and procedures to report these incidents.
>> 
>> Education about what is rape, and how to avoid it should also go a long way
>> to prevent it in the first place.
>> 
>> Antonio
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 13, 2014, at 8:33 AM, Carly Mihalakis via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning, Don't forget, rape happens everywhere, to most women, at
>> camp, at college, at frat parties. And yes, at centers, too. And, it is my
>> opinion that it's better that it happens within a more or less controlled
>> environment where some support is available, than after leaving the center
>> where, one must fend for herself. And no, sharing general ideas,
>> particularly about matters considdered taboo, has a place. If information
>> someone appreciates, happening to come from a listserv such as this, helps
>> one person, it is fulfilling an envaluable function.
>> 
>> wrote:
>> I'm not exactly sure how to say this delicately, so please understand
>> that I'm not trying to be offensive here.
>> I find the statement that you made, that social skills must be taught
>> at centers because there is too much drama on Skype, to be wanting in
>> many ways.
>> First of all, I agree with what Arielle said. A class about social
>> skills could very easily backfire. I don't even think the model of
>> structured discovery would be able to rein in individual
>> personalities on this subject, nor should it. Each person, to an
>> extent, is free to behave how they see fit, as long as they're not
>> causing harm to others. I believe that forcing people to go through
>> training in social skills would quickly and effectively single out
>> those who were maybe more inept, and just lead to ridicule by the
>> other participants rather than actually helping them to see things
>> differently. Furthermore, no one wants to be told how to act. As long
>> as we know the basics, and I suspect that most of us do, we'll be fine
>> in
>> most settings.
>> Now, about the actual suggestion that social skills training will
>> eliminate drama on Skype, I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. I would
>> suggest that, rather than focusing on browbeating people into making
>> changes that they might not even find to be necessary, you should
>> distance yourself from those who are giving you problems. It's just
>> skype, after all. Blocking an annoying or offensive person is
>> literally a click or keystroke away.
>> 
>> Finally, if someone did truly get raped at one of the NFB's training
>> centers, that is horrible and should be dealt with. But I think it's
>> in poor taste to bring it up on a public mailing list. Even though
>> you didn't mention the person's name, how do you think that person
>> would feel if she knew you had paraded her story around without asking
>> her?
>> Even if she did give you permission to talk about it, I still would
>> think that there are better venues for getting her story out there.
>> Starting with the center itself, obviously. But there's so much that
>> we don't know that any more speculation on my part would be
>> unnecessary.
>> I do agree, however, that it might be a good idea to add self-defense
>> training to the curriculum of NFB training centers. I believe that
>> too many blind people perceive themselves to be more defenseless than
>> their sighted counterparts. And, sadly, there are probably a lot of
>> criminals out there who would mug or attack a disabled person just
>> because they think that person is helpless. I also believe strongly
>> that learning how to defend oneself is a pretty good way to become
>> confident. If it were me, I'd feel that way. As someone who does
>> struggle with this very thing sometimes, the fact that I'm not only
>> blind, but female, and not very physically imposing, either, gets to
>> me sometimes. It makes me a little less confident in city
>> environments. Then again, this could also be because I was raised in
>> a rural area, so I have a natural wariness toward that kind of thing.
>> But I do think, either way, it has a place in a confidence-building
>> curriculum. Everyone feels better about themselves if they feel like
>> they know what to do in a situation where they're being victimized.
>> 
>> On 8/9/14, Beth Taurasi via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Dear RJ and all,
>> While I'm in agreement with the independent living skills portion
>> of training at the Center, I was STILL forced into a sighted group
>> of socially inept people who mostly do not discuss blindness.
>> It
>> is absolutely horrific that any voc rehab would do this and think
>> that my primary disability is NOT blindness, but mental illness
>> instead.  Well, that mental illness was caused because I was blind.
>> If I hadn't been blind, I would not have any problems because of
>> the society and the sighted world's view of blindness as a darker
>> form of living.  Social skills also must be taught because, if you
>> look at it this way, there is too much drama on Skype.  RJ is
>> right, but let's face this: social skills are not being taught
>> properly at any of the Centers.  I've heard of people at both CCB
>> and LCB not bathing, smoking, and doing things that are otherwise
>> not allowed.  I've heard numerous complaints from various people
>> that say that the Center students smell bad, look bad, talk badly,
>> and so on.  There was a girl who was unable to keep her body safe,
>> and so she is now expecting a little baby because someone raped
>> her.  Should training centers even teach social skills and
>> self-defense?  We do martial arts traiing, but that should be
>> taught outside and earlier.  Because of this and because of other
>> sorts of bullying cases I've seen on Skype, I'd like to do a study
>> of social skills and actually share my experiences with the rest of
>> the NFB members and nonmembers about what works and what doesn't.
>> Thanks.
>> Beth
>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Desiree
>> 
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