[nagdu] Photos and blindness

Sun Dec 28 11:28:16 UTC 2008

Jeff,
    I tend to agree about the challenges sending large files to a group list 
create for those who use dial-up. I, too, was chastized by a member for 
sending my 4.5MB audio file to the list! Sometimes I forget that not 
everyone uses DSL!
    As for the "sensitivities", I hope you take the time to read some of Dr. 
Jernigan's writings and speeches. he was an awesome orator and a wonderful 
philosopher. What he had to say really helped me overcome some of the 
negative impressions I held as a blind person, even though I didn't know 
they were negative. I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn 
from him while he was with us; however, his writings lives on forever!

Peace!
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Photos and blindness

> Marion,
> Thank you for your thoughtful and thought provoking note.  I believe that
> this issue is a tempest in a teapot.  Would I ban Bunny from the list or
> censure her in some formal way? No.  Would I send and email with 2 mb of
> photos to this list? No.  Personally, I would feel that it would be an
> affront to the list.   That said, I ask that we drop it.  This is simply 
> an
> issue of personal judgment and sensitivities.  I am happy for those of you
> who could enjoy the photos.  I didn't realize that there were so many on
> this list.
> Cordially,
> Jeff
> PS I am quite familiar with the NFB and its founder.  I corresponded with
> him extensively.  I think that he was very damaged by life's early
> experiences as a blind youth and grew into an angry and bitter man.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:21 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Photos and blindness
>
> Jeffrey,
>    I would like to say that I do not feel as if Bunny's post of pictures 
> is
>
> "insensitive". I, too, have RP and only light perception; however, there 
> are
>
> those on this list who obviously enjoy the pictures she has sent! You and 
> I
> have a number of things in common from our professions (I am a Mental 
> health
>
> Counselor, as well as a musician), our previous love of photography (I had 
> a
>
> full scale dark room when I was a teen), and our athleticism (I lettered 
> in
> basketball, football, & baseball)! Now, I am a little older and no longer 
> as
>
> flexible nor possess as much endurance as I did thirty or so years ago! 
> Even
>
> though this is so, I would not find it insensitive for those who have the
> stamina to engage in athletics the enjoyment of discussing this, if it 
> were
> on topic for this list.
>    Do I miss my eyesight? Of course! It would be great to be able to 
> drive,
>
> ride a bike, play sports, and see my granddaughter's beautiful smile! at 
> the
>
> same time, I enjoy riding the tandem bike with my wife, hearing my
> granddaughter's laughter, learning new music, engaging in stimulating
> conversations, and helping others overcome their personal challenges.
> However, since there is absolutely nothing I can do to change the fact 
> that
> I am blind - just as I cannot change the fact that i am no longer twenty - 
> I
>
> choose to focus upon what i have rather than what I do not have.
>    Sometimes being blind sucks! But sometimes being fifty-something sucks,
> too! After our family gathering today, merry and I went to the store with
> hannah and the dogs. I waited outside and took a seat on the curb of the
> parking lot. When Merry and hannah came out of the store, it seemed like a
> long way up! My knees just aren't what they were thirty years ago....and
> neither are my eyes! Getting old sucks, but it sure is better than the
> alternative! (smile)
>    Finally, you know that i play the guitar fairly well, at least some
> would say so! Would you think it insensitive for me to say so because you
> have that beautiful twelve string and cannot play it? My point is that we
> all have a set of characteristics. Some of us wish we had some of those
> possessed by others! Perhaps you wish you could play that guitar! You and 
> I
> certainly wish we could see some of those beautiful pictures Bunny has 
> sent!
>
> But the facts are that you can't play that guitar and neither of us can 
> see
> those pics! There were many times that I wish I didn't have red hair 
> because
>
> of all the teasing when I was a child, not to mention that I couldn't get
> away with anything! Who did it? It was that red headed kid with the girl's
> name! These characteristics serve me well today! When they ask who it is?
> "Well it's that tall, red headed, blind guy! Oh, his name is marion! I'll
> bet no one ever made fun of him!" Oh, how things have changed! (smile)
>    You said that you haven't met a lot of blind people. Well, now you 
> have!
>
> Not only a bunch of blind people, but a bunch of them who are okay with 
> the
> fact that they are blind! Perhaps blindness isn't new to you, but the
> attitudes most of us reflect may be. If you haven't heard this yet, let me
> share with you what the NFB teaches.
>
>    "The real problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. the real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists! If a
> blind person is given proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a
> physical nuisance."
>
>    I realize this is a pretty radical idea and it may take a while to wrap
> your mind around it. I encourage you to read some of the writings of Dr.
> kenneth Jernigan, especially his series entitled "Blindness: ..." My two
> favorites are "blindness: A Left-Handed Dissertation" in which he compares
> being blind to being left-handed, and "blindness: handicap or
> Characteristic"", the title speaks for itself! They are available on the
> Federation website at
> http://www.nfb.org
>    If you ever want to chat, please feel free to get in touch with me. my
> contact information is on our website at
> http://www.nfb-nagdu.org
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 6:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Photos and blindness
>
>
>>I see where you are coming from.  I have RP and have lost my vision very
>> gradually.  I wasn't even diagnosed until the second semester of my 
>> senior
>> year at Johns Hopkins.  The diagnosis caused me to withdraw my
>> matriculation
>> to medical school and go into a different field.  I was a varsity 
>> athlete,
>> played every sport known to man, was a scratch golfer in high school,
>> bowled
>> a 267 at the age of 12 and raced sports cars, the full scale variety.  I
>> was
>> a photography enthusiast and somewhere around this house there are
>> thousands
>> of photos  and slides.  I never knew any blind people until quite
>> recently.
>> I am 61 have light perception, work full time as a clinical psychologist
>> and
>> am a faculty member of the Yale School of Medicine.  It would have never
>> occurred to me to place visually impaired folks into hierarchies.  It
>> simply
>> struck me as weird that Bunny is describing these photos in terms of
>> blades
>> of grass as if we can see them.  I thought that it was an errant post 
>> from
>> another list.  She is very excited.  I find it quite insensitive. 
>> Perhaps
>> Bunny should be sharing these photos with her family and friends who can
>> see
>> them.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
>> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:48 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Photos and blindness
>>
>> Jeffrey,
>> I can understand that!  I do envy those who can just take their bike out
>> and
>>
>> ride everywhere!  I used to be a very high partial back when I was a
>> teenager and I rode my bike everywhere, including to school.  I love to
>> ride
>>
>> a bike and now I can't unless it is on a tandem bike with a fully sighted
>> person driving.
>>
>> I think what happens sometimes is that us partials feel that the totals
>> begrudge us for using what little sight we have left.  I do know that at
>> the
>>
>> blind schools there was a hierarchy where the partials were "better" than
>> the totals - not unlike how some blacks feel that light skin is "better"
>> than very dark skin.
>>
>> To be partially sighted is to be more misunderstood by the sighted 
>> public.
>> When a sighted person encounters a totally blind person, they think, "Oh,
>> he
>>
>> just sees blackness." even though you really don't see black - it is just
>> nothing like imagining seeing out of the back of your head.  Then there
>> are
>> the totals with light perception.  Sighted people just think, well, 
>> almost
>> black!  Partials have such a wide range of visual acuity and a wide range
>> of
>>
>> how that acuity works - what kinds of lighting varieties.  We just
>> befuddle
>> the sighted folk and they think we're faking it.  Some people aren't very
>> nice about it either.
>>
>> I never bought into that "partials are better than totals" thing because 
>> I
>> grew up with BOTH totals and partials and I never went to blind school.
>>
>> Totals should NEVER feel inferior and nobody should treat totals like 
>> they
>> were inferior - they are not!  Our eyes' level of functioning has nothing
>> to
>>
>> do with who we are as people, they're just a small part of what makes us
>> who
>>
>> we are.
>>
>> We all need each other to take our rightful places in society.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Linda and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 6:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: photos finally
>>
>>
>>> Guess that I'm just jealous.  One of life's little ironies.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of sblanjones11
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 8:59 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: photos finally
>>>
>>> Jeffrey,
>>> There are some partially sighted people on this list who can see the
>>> pics.
>>> Mind you, (smile) I'm not one of them, but for those who can, GREAT!
>>> Susan & Rhoda
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jeffrey Schwartz
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 8:02 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: photos finally
>>>
>>> Not to offend, but do you realize that you are sending photographs to a
>>> group of blind people.  It does not quite feel politically correct.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Bunny Davidson
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 5:10 PM
>>> To: bunnydavidson at live.com
>>> Subject: [nagdu] FW: photos finally
>>>
>>>
>>> hi all,
>>> i finally made time to upload the digital pix from the icestorm here 
>>> that
>>> left me without power, water and rest for a week (dec11-17th)
>>>
>>> notice how many trees are broken, and also - the snow we had (about 6-8"
>>> had
>>> already melted before this one inch of ice coated every blade of grass,
>>> tree
>>> and thing outside.
>>> the dark ones with orange were taken starting at 530 am on friday dec12,
>>> the
>>> storm of ice knocked out power on the day before (thurs dec 11) the ones
>>> where it looks more daylight were taken about monday, ice still 
>>> cliniging
>>> on
>>> - no power yet (not for a week in all). the moose i saw in bottom right
>>> of
>>> the sunrise shots did not show up in the pictures (i guess it was too
>>> dark
>>> out yet) the photos of dogs tied out with coats on, i tied them on a 
>>> walk
>>> up
>>> my road to take photos of them... we had that snow before storm, then it
>>> melted, then the ice came.   hope you are all feeling the love of the
>>> holiday season,
>>> bunny
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> account.
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>>
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>>>
>>>
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