[nagdu] Dog Therapy and Paws that Heal
Haben Girma
habnkid at aol.com
Mon Feb 16 20:10:38 UTC 2009
Thanks Wayne! I"ll be sure to tell them I"m open to all breeds, I want
to have the best match possible.
Haben
Wayne Merritt wrote:
> You can certainly state your preferences and what dog you'd like to
> have, but the more open you are to what they have, the better you're
> going to be. For instance, I told them that i wanted a Shepherd, but
> that i was open to having a Lab. They found two dogs,a Shepherd and a
> Lab, for me but ultimatley gave me the Shepherd. I couldn't be
> happier, not just because I got the dog type I requested, but because
> the dog's personality and behaviors match me very well. Everyone's
> case is different, so you might get a Lab or Golden. The best thing I
> can offer is to be open to whatever they choose and whatever you get.
> You never know; the dog they choose might very well end up fitting you
> like a glove.
>
> Good luck,
> Wayne
>
> On 2/15/09, Haben Girma <habnkid at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Linda, thanks for so much information about the Seeing Eye! I'm looking
>> forward to getting a seeing eye dog. One more question, if you don't
>> mind. Do seeing eye candidates have any influence over what kind of
>> dog/which dog they are partnered up with?
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Haben,
>>> Unfortunately, the Naval Medical Center cannot pay us. They're
>>> cutting their paid staff! And wasting money to revamp several areas on
>>> the base. It would be nice to be paid, but...you know how that is.
>>> I'm glad you enjoyed the articles. We enjoy what we do pay or no
>>> pay. I'd say that our "pay" is the contribution to the healing of our
>>> Wounded Warriors. These servicemembers are all mostly 18 and 19 year
>>> olds who went into the military because they wanted to serve the
>>> country they love. We feel that the program is a way that we can also
>>> serve our country - we can't serve in the military ourselves. We see
>>> first hand what this long war in Iraq and Afghanistan is doing to our
>>> young people. Most of the wounded are brain injuries, depression, and
>>> PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). Unlike in the war in Vietnam,
>>> the current servicemembers have to be deployed for over a year at a
>>> time and they are also deployed over and over. Even sick folks are
>>> sent back! Not good. Many of our patients are so sick and affected
>>> for life that they are forced out of the military. They all say in
>>> their exit interviews that the Paws That Heal program was a huge help
>>> in their recovery.
>>>
>>> Well, until yesterday, all the Paws That Heal canine staff were Seeing
>>> Eye dogs! We have accepted our newest staffmember and her dog is from
>>> Guide Dogs for the Blind - San Rafael Campus. We didn't ever
>>> discriminate against dogs from other schools - we just didn't have any
>>> who qualified until now (smile!).
>>>
>>> Now, about Seeing Eye. You are treated as the mature adult that they
>>> assume you are. The campus is really nice - nestled in the lovely
>>> rolling hills of Washington Valley in Morris Township, New Jersey.
>>> The living arrangements are comfortable and homey. The grounds are
>>> nice to walk around. There's a leisure path with two gazebos. The
>>> staff is very friendly and professional in their interactions with the
>>> blind people. The Seeing Eye is a tough place to find job openings -
>>> even jobs like cooks or housekeeping. They are a great employer and
>>> people don't want to leave! All of the staff is comfortable with
>>> blindness. I've heard that the staff spends some time under blindfold
>>> for them to gain a sensitivity towards the blind people they work
>>> with. You have your own room to yourself with your own bathroom.
>>> There are lounges to hang out in with stereos and TVs. There's an
>>> exercise room, laundryroom, dog grooming room, and a computer room
>>> with CCTVs and a Ham Radio if you are qualified to use that. In each
>>> room is a radio, I think they still have Satellite radio that a
>>> graduate donated for the dorm. They got this right after I was there.
>>>
>>> The diningroom similates a restaurant setting. At lunch time during
>>> the weekdays, the whole staff eats there. One or two staff people
>>> sits at each table with the students. Other staffmembers eat in
>>> another area that the students must pass through as the staff come to
>>> eat about ten minutes before the students are called to lunch. Now,
>>> this teaches us how to handle our new dogs in a situation where people
>>> are already eating at tables and we learn how to keep proper control
>>> of our dogs in a place where there is food around. The food is
>>> delicious and is much like that served in a fine-dining restaurant.
>>> They feed you so good that we have to make use of the exercise room
>>> and the leisure path!
>>>
>>> The training is the best I've experienced. I have attended three
>>> other schools before I attended The Seeing Eye. After experiencing
>>> The Seeing Eye, I will not even consider any other school. The other
>>> schools do a decent job, but the Seeing Eye still shines brighter.
>>>
>>> The instructors are very good and thorough in teaching us EVERYTHING
>>> we need to know aboout guide dog care and use. We train in Morristown
>>> - a lovely town - and other nearby communities. We have four basic
>>> routes that we do in the beginning. Towards the end we do "free
>>> lance" which is any particular aspect of training that you feel you
>>> need. With one dog, I was living nearby my sister-in-law who has
>>> horses. I was always over there and riding. I needed to have a dog
>>> who wouldn't freak out over horses. My instructor arranged a visit to
>>> a barn full of horses. With Landon, my instructors knew about my work
>>> with Paws That Heal. I was taken on a visit to a nursing home and
>>> Landon got to visit with the patients. He loved it! We have lots of
>>> good lectures. We get training with traffic checks, even with the
>>> hybrid Prius car! Each instructor has four students in his or her
>>> class so you get alot of personal attention.
>>>
>>> I would say that the experience is like a working vacation. Learn all
>>> you can and have fun! If you have any concerns - no matter what -
>>> talk to your instructor. The only "stupid question" is the one never
>>> asked (grin!).
>>>
>>> Also, you have a ready made community right here on the NAGDU List.
>>> We are a wealth of information and experience here as we represent
>>> many, many years of hands-on experience with using guide dogs.
>>>
>>> Hopefully, this has answered your questions (grin).
>>>
>>> Take care and let us know when you go to Seeing Eye.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Linda and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog Therapy and Paws that Heal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey Linda, I loved the articles. It's very touching, such a truly
>>>> marvelous program. You should ask the Naval Medical Center to pay the
>>>> blind volunteers? The program has proven its benefits, its
>>>> successfulness, and I'm sure many of the military men you serve in
>>>> the program would agree. It wouldn't hurt to ask.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard many good things about The Seeing Eye. I'd love to hear
>>>> your reasons for ranking it as the best school. I laughed when I read
>>>> that only Seeing Eye teams had passed the interviews for Paws that Heal.
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Haben
>>>>
>>>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Haben,
>>>>> Yes, isn't it a shame that governments get in the way sometimes.
>>>>> The singer/songwriter Sting has a song about the Cold War between
>>>>> the US and the old USSR. There is a reoccuring line in the song
>>>>> about the Russians loving their children as the Americans love
>>>>> theirs! Thanks for the explanations about Eritrea and Ethiopia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey! Wonderful about you going to The Seeing Eye! I've been to
>>>>> several other schools over the years - I've had dogs since 1973. I
>>>>> like The Seeing Eye the best. I would have started out with them
>>>>> back in 1973 but, at that time, The Seeing Eye didn't accept people
>>>>> who still had some usable vision. They soon realized that some
>>>>> people with limited vision do well with guide dogs and began to
>>>>> accept us. There are some people who have some vision and they
>>>>> don't learn to trust the dog and it doesn't go well for the team.
>>>>> Some people with partial vision second guess the dog and the team
>>>>> gets in trouble. You get hurt because the envirnment isn't what you
>>>>> thought you saw. The dog gets real confused and stops doing its job.
>>>>> The Seeing Eye will work you under blindfold if they suspect you are
>>>>> having trust troubles with your dog. Most people learn to trust
>>>>> their dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are ways to use the usable vision with the dog. I do that all
>>>>> the time. However, I "listen" to my dog if he doesn't want to go
>>>>> through something or he takes me around a black spot on the sidewalk
>>>>> - that tells me that the black spot was actually a hole! So, TRUST
>>>>> YOUR DOG! (grin!) I also have no night vision - just lights
>>>>> "floating" in the blackness of the night. I HAVE to trust my dog as
>>>>> if I were totally blind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also use ZoomText for the PDF files. What did you think about the
>>>>> Paws program?
>>>>>
>>>>> You take care,
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:08 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog Therapy and Paws that Heal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Linda,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The governments of Eritrea and Ethiopia do not get along at all,
>>>>>> they've been at the verge of war for the last few years, with
>>>>>> fighting breaking out at the border every now and then. The typical
>>>>>> civilian does not hate the civilians of the other country. I have
>>>>>> family on both sides of the border, and quite a lot of people have
>>>>>> family on both sides. The cultures are very similar, almost
>>>>>> identical, and some parts of each country share languages. Most
>>>>>> Eritreans don't like Ethiopia, but they have Ethiopian friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I was able to read the attachments. I use ZoomText, so the
>>>>>> pdfs weren't a problem. I hope the interview with the woman goes well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope to have a dog by this summer, I'm in the application process
>>>>>> with The Seeing Eye at the moment. I've heard lots of good things
>>>>>> about that place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> Haben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Haben,
>>>>>>> Thanks. We have alot of Eritrians here in San Diego. I heard
>>>>>>> that the Eritreans and the Ethiopians don't like each other - is
>>>>>>> this true? I hope not - I don't like people having age-old grudges
>>>>>>> against each other - you know - it limits your friendships with
>>>>>>> people. (grin!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Were you able to read the Paws That Heal attachments I sent you?
>>>>>>> I know that screen readers and PDF files don't always agree with
>>>>>>> each other. Tell me what you think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tomorrow, we're interviewing a local woman and her guide dog for
>>>>>>> the Paws program. I want to make sure we have another good person
>>>>>>> in it before I have to leave in July.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if I missed something - do you have a dog? If so,
>>>>>>> what kind is it and what's its name? I do know that we have
>>>>>>> people on the list who are between dogs, exploring the
>>>>>>> possibilities for a first dog. My dog Landon is a Golden/Lab mix
>>>>>>> and he's red. He's from the Seeing Eye in New Jersey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:13 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog Therapy and Paws that Heal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the articles, Linda!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I identify as female, born in California with family from
>>>>>>>> Eritrea, East Africa. Haben is actually a gender neutral name in
>>>>>>>> Eritrea, so it's a legitimate question all around. I like the
>>>>>>>> ambiguity, especially when filling out applications for various
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> best,
>>>>>>>> Haben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Haben,
>>>>>>>>> Attached are a couple of articles and a flyer aboout the Paws
>>>>>>>>> That Heal program. One article and the flyer are in PDF files
>>>>>>>>> and the other article is in a work doc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't tell from your name if you are a male or female - I just
>>>>>>>>> like to know what I'm talking to! (grin). What nationality is
>>>>>>>>> your name? I'm half Polish. It took me an age to find out that
>>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala is a man!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Enjoy the articles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS: Your home e-mail didn't work so this is on the list.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:03 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog Therapy and Paws that Heal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Linda, I am absolutely intrigued! That is such a lovely
>>>>>>>>>> program! I really hope I can find something like that in the
>>>>>>>>>> Portland, Oregon area. I am a college student currently taking
>>>>>>>>>> an anthropology class that requires students to go out and do
>>>>>>>>>> fieldwork. I am considering doing something with Guide Dogs for
>>>>>>>>>> the Blind in Boring, Oregon. Right now I'm going to search the
>>>>>>>>>> Internet for a dog therapy program in Portland. Thanks for
>>>>>>>>>> sharing LInda!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Haben
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Haben,
>>>>>>>>>>> There is no web page for Paws That Heal. We are a 3 year old
>>>>>>>>>>> program that is run out of the Health & Wellness Department
>>>>>>>>>>> for the Naval Medical Center of San Diego. The program
>>>>>>>>>>> manager is their Diabetes Instructor. She is visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>> with a guide dog and she started the program after an
>>>>>>>>>>> encounter in the elevator with a Wounded Warrior in her
>>>>>>>>>>> building. The servicemember had a profound stutter and it
>>>>>>>>>>> took him five minutes to stutter out, "May I pet your dog?"
>>>>>>>>>>> My friend - the instructor - allowed him to pet her dog and
>>>>>>>>>>> the stutter went away just like that! He then shared his war
>>>>>>>>>>> experiences with her - the servicemember was wounded in Iraq.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, the Diabetes instructor happens to have been a friend
>>>>>>>>>>> of mine for years. She also knows several of the other guide
>>>>>>>>>>> dog users in the San Diego area who already had a program with
>>>>>>>>>>> the local blind center where we bring our dogs to an outdoor,
>>>>>>>>>>> fenced in dog park to allow the guide dogs play time
>>>>>>>>>>> together. We had exclusive use of one of the fenced in areas
>>>>>>>>>>> for two hours once a month. The friend of mine worked with us
>>>>>>>>>>> and her chain of command at the hospital and permission was
>>>>>>>>>>> granted to bring several wounded servicemembers to the park to
>>>>>>>>>>> play with our dogs - and Paws That Heal was born. We also
>>>>>>>>>>> have a portion of the program where we go to the locked mental
>>>>>>>>>>> health ward to work with the servicemembers with PTSD and
>>>>>>>>>>> depression. More great stuff happened as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do have a flyer for the program but it is in a PDF file and
>>>>>>>>>>> turned sideways - don't know if a screen reader can desipher it!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The program manager has written to Marion Gwizdala and he in
>>>>>>>>>>> turn had her contact Mike Hingson about the program. We are
>>>>>>>>>>> looking for some new teams to work with us who live in the San
>>>>>>>>>>> Diego area. The Paws program happens three times a month at
>>>>>>>>>>> the hospital so we need people who can get there, can commit
>>>>>>>>>>> the time, and pass the interviewing process - both human and dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I forgot, where do you live?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HTH
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma"
>>>>>>>>>>> <habnkid at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 1:13 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Welcome Haben
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linda, those volunteer programs sound awesome! Would you send
>>>>>>>>>>>> me the web address for Paws that Heal? I'd love to read more
>>>>>>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Haben
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Welcome to the list, Haben.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Linda and I live in San Diego - soon to move to Vermont.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Landon is my 3 year old red Lab/Golden cross from The Seeing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eye. I got him in the October 2007 class. I am 58 years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> young and have not had a paid job in eons. I've done lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> volunteer jobs to get experience to put on a resume! Right
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now, Landon and I work at two pet therapy programs. One for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Humane Society where we visit various facilities for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabled kids and adults. Landon is certified by the AKC's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canine Good Citizenship Test. Landon is their program's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first actual working assistance dog they've had. Lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide dog and service dog pups, but we are their first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working team to be in the program. The other one is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> program called Paws That Heal that is at the Naval Medical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Center of SD. Both Landon and I had to pass a series of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviews for this. We do a combo pet therapy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> socialization, and reintegration work with our Wounded
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warriors from Iraq and Afghanistan. We work mainly with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> patients on the mental health ward.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haben, you'll enjoy this list - it's alot of fun.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <habnkid at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:27 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Welcome Haben
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mardi, thanks for the explanations. I love the names of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your dogs. I actually don't have a dog, I'm in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application process for a Seeing Eye dog right now. So, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patiently waiting to learn my fate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Haben
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mardi Hadfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi every one, Welcome Haben. No, I don't live in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alaska. My Huskies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are "south paws" We live in Tucson, Arizona. When I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first needed a guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog, I was told that the schools did not train for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair users.Since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already had a service dog, who was a husky, I hired a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trainer to help me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train Lily to guide me. I had to retire her at age 8 as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she had health
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues and she died month later, leaving me with out a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide dog. I tried
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out a border collie and he did not work out as he had been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abused before I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got him and he could not handle being out in public. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> husky, Nala,who was a fantastic guide. She will soon be 10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years old and has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health issues now.She has guided me for 8 years and it has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retire her as she does not want to retire. When she sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me getting ready to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go out, she brings me her harness and get all excited. She
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started picking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fights with Wanagi, the dog that I was training to take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over for Nala. She
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a lot happier now that she is working again part time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wanagi came up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lame with a hip problem, so she was career changed. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keeping her as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pet. I have been looking for a dog to take over as my new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide for over 10
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months. I think I have finally found a dog.I would love to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a dog from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fidelco,but when I asked about it ,I was told that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't train for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheelchair users.I would have to pay my way to and from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> South Eastern Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dogs, which I could not afford, and really can't be away
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that long. Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dogs for the Blind would take me ,but again, I can't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away from my home
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and business that long. So I guess I will just continue to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides with the help of my trainer. Haben, do you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide dog? If so ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what breed is it? I love hearing from others and about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their dogs. Have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great day, Mardi and Nala,semi-retired, and Shaman ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible trainee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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