[nagdu] Juryfinds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

Sun Feb 22 13:46:06 UTC 2009

Dan,
Let me try to answer this question. With a NFB center, the dogs are
welcomed, yes they are in a special room during the day, but as Carlos and
Cathy spoke about in other emails, they can go in and say hello to there
pups, they can take there pups out to park, take care of there needs how
ever that may be. Yes because they are at a NFB center they are required to
participate in cane travel. But the difference is that a state ran center
would not be as welcoming to a guide, nor would they be set up to have a
special room, nor for you to do those things that you might do at an nfb
center during classes. A state run center might not allow a dog at the
center. As where a NFB center will. Yes this might not be a guide dog user's
preferred method of having the dog at the NFB center, but if you are going
to a NFB center you know that you are going to be trained in all aspects of
blindness. 

I do think it would be a wonderful thing that if a blind person, who uses a
guide, could go to a center, get the specific aspects but the center be even
more equipped to let a person use there dog. Say for example those of us who
have been to Seeing Eye, know that our O&M is a determining factor for us
receiving a dog, but that if we can prove our abilities when it comes to O&m
then we don't need to be trained anymore in it. That we be able to test out
of it sort to speak. Of course there could be a million aspects to this
sinerio. 

Just a thought.
Marsha       

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:36 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu]Juryfinds
IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

So, guys, what's the difference between Federation centers that want you to
put your dog in a room or somewhere and other rehab agencies which, in the
past, would have you kennel your dog or request you put it somewhere?

Dan W.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Margo and Elmo
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:01 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Juryfinds
IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

Who monitors the dogs while you are in class?  Are they just left in a room
by themselves?

margo and Elmo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos J montas" <carlos.montas at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds
IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

> Well like you said, we all have are opinions. As for your question 
> about the dogs the dogs are kept in a room through out the day. Write 
> me off list if you have any other questions.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
> notdiscriminate
>
>
>> Hi, Carlos.
>>
>> I'll certainly write you off   list as you seem like a nice person to get

>> to
>> know,  but I'm not sure I understood your answer.  Where is the dog when
>> you're in class, somewhere in the building, at your apartment, or where?
>>
>> I remember you now, there was an article about you a few years ago in the
>> Florida Focus, Florida NFB newsletter, right?
>>
>> Well, I have to say honestly that that policy would not be satisfactory 
>> for
>> me as a guide dog user whether a state president who's a guide dog user 
>> or
>> anyone else told me they approve it--grin.
>>
>> I personally feel I know my own mind and what skills I need working on.
>> I remember hearing Peggy Elliot at the 1996 convention saying that the 
>> "dog
>> schools" maybe should have shorter programs.  Then what about the
>> Centers?--smile.  Six to nine months is a damned long time.
>>
>> Remember, I'm certainly not trying to fight with you but these are my
>> opinions.
>> I'm often seen how E-mail makes things sound harsher than people mean 
>> their
>> statements to sound.
>>
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W. and the hilarious hounds
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Carlos J montas
>> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:30 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>> notdiscriminate
>>
>> Good morning to you Dan, and listers. When the dog is not being used 
>> during
>> the day, my dog gets to interact with three other guide dogs. During are
>> brakes, and lunch time, we take the dogs out. We also work are dogs on
>> weekends and at night. It has not been a problem for me or for the 
>> Florida
>> president Kathy Davis  who is also a guide dog user. My issue is that I 
>> am
>> not going to let the fact that I have a guide dog stop me from attending 
>> one
>> of the best rehabilitation centers around the country. I believe that 
>> there
>> was a time where may be some folks in the nfb did not understand how 
>> guide
>> dogs work. How ever I believe that the president of nagdu and the rest of

>> us
>> are working to change that perception. Let me also point out that Pam 
>> Allen
>> who is on the National board, and the executive director of the Louisiana
>> center for the blind is also a former guide dog user. She understands the
>> issues that a person entering the program may go through. How ever my
>> experience has been invaluable. I have not just learned about blindness 
>> but
>> I have learned about life in general, and about having high expectations 
>> for
>> my self at all times.If any one would like to write to me off list, my 
>> email
>> is carlos.montas at gmail.com Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>> notdiscriminate
>>
>>
>>> First of all, good to have you here, Carlos.
>>>
>>> My name is Dan and I'm from Florida.
>>>
>>> So, if you can't use the dog from eight to five what on earth do you
>>> do with your pup during that time?
>>> It sounds like the Louisiana Center's policy hasn't changed from that
>>> of
>>> 12
>>> years ago when I was interested in going there.  It's not a policy I
>>> would like  very much...but, oh well.
>>> Explain, please, someone, structured discovery in plain English--grin.
>>>
>>> So, good to meet you and hope you enjoy the list as I don't remember
>>> seeing you before.
>>>
>>> Dan W. and the hilarious hounds
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Carlos J montas
>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 1:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>>> notdiscriminate
>>>
>>> Good afternoon, my name is Carlos J montas. I am a guide dog user, and
>>> I am also currently in training at the Louisiana center for the blind.
>>> The policy is that students who have guide dogs may not use them
>>> during the day that is from 8:00 to 5:00. I have not had any issues
>>> while attending the Louisiana center for the blind when it pertains to
>>> Gide dogs. The fact of the matter is that it is not possible to learn
>>> the skills of cane travel while using the dog. I would say that it has
>>> been my experience that because of my training, in structured
>>> discovery I have become a better guide dog user.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:54 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's
>>> guidedogpolicydoes notdiscriminate
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes that is true that if you are at a center, an NFB center, you can
>>>> not use your dog during class. Again I do not know this for the truth
>>>> but during the day, it can be used but not during O&M training.
>>>> Nothing is wrong with a person needing to get better travel skills. I
>>>> guess it is more of the wording that I do not agree with. And if this
>>>> student is staying at the rehab center, then why would she not be
>>>> able to use her dog after class?
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Meleah H. Jensen
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:39 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide
>>>> dogpolicydoes notdiscriminate
>>>>
>>>> Hi Marcia and List,
>>>> I can't speak for the other NFB centers, but I know that if you have
>>>> a dog and are an LCB student you may not work your dog during class
>>>> time. I see nothing wrong with the decision other than perhaps the
>>>> way
>>> it's worded.
>>>> Going to a center and demanding to use my dog wouldn't be any more
>>>> acceptable than me going to a dog school and demanding to use my cane
>>>> once I've received my dog.
>>>>
>>>> Those are just my thoughts... I'll step down off my soap box now
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Meleah with Seeing Eye Dog Calvin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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