[nagdu] PBS program link

Sat Apr 24 18:40:36 UTC 2010

Sorry if this is getting a little off topic, but two quick kitty stories. 
There was a kitten once who somehow got part of its collar in its mouth and 
was struggling with it.  Somehow, there is debate over if it was luck or 
smartness, the kitten knocked the phone receiver off the hook and stepped on 
the 911 autodial and started meowing into the receiver.  Another story says 
that there was a cat that lived at a nursing home, and the cat could tell 
when one of the people was going to die.  Rather sad, but quite amazing.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] PBS program link

> Your kitty sounds like a few of mine over the years.  Yes, it is very much 
> a
> mutual relationship.  /smile/  Then again, when I lost my last kitty to 
> old
> age and illness, it took me a week to figure out how to do anything 
> without
> her there and without doing my part of the routine for her.  I still miss
> her, but I think she would approve of Mizi dog.  /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Jewel S.
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 12:39 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] PBS program link
>
> And let's not forget cats! My relationship with my feline friend,
> Magdalene (or Maggie) is one of friendship and mutual love and trust.
> She understands me and trusts me, and I her. She takes care of me as
> much as I take care of her. For example, when I was sick with a rather
> nasty bug that was going around recently, and had called 911 because I
> was so severely dehydrated that I could hardly even stand and couldn't
> keep anything down, even water, Maggie refused to leave my side while
> I waited for the EMS, and even mewed into the phone several times,
> which I interpreted as "Hello, anyone listening? She's sick, so get
> your butt over here!" By the same token, as soon as I knew I would
> have to leave my apartment and go to the hospital, I called a friend
> and asked her to care for my kitty while I was away. She would have
> been fine on food, water, and a clean litter box, but she was in an
> agitated state, worried about my health, and I knew she would get very
> upset alone at that time worrying about me. My friend, DL, stayed with
> her for a bit, calming her and cuddling her, making sure she
> understood that she had done everything right.
>
> Whenever I need her to do something, I am certain to do it
> respectfully, waiting for her to decide to do it herself. Like when I
> got up just now because I couldn't sleep, and she was in my armchair,
> where I wanted to sit to get on the computer. I sat there and pet her
> and asked her if I could sit n my chair please. I sat there and waited
> patiently, and she eventually got up and moved to the ottoman, where
> she is now cuddled against my leg awaiting her turn back in the chair,
> but enjoying my company at the same time.
>
> I have always had very close relationships with cats, more than with
> any other creatures, including people sometimes. Cats can be
> incredibly intelligent companions, able to ense people's needs and
> feelings before they even sense those feelings or needs themselves.
> They can understand when people are hurt, sick, lonely, upset, or mad,
> and they react appropriately, trying to help their human friends feel
> better.
>
> I agree that dogs are definitely not the only non-human creatures who
> can have that bond with people. Cats, horses, and other cretures can
> too. I had a friend who had the most incredible relationship with a
> flying squirrel she had rescued. They really understood and accepted
> each other. Then there is a friend's father, who has ferrets, and
> whose ferrets all make themselves well-known, and he has described how
> they take care of him, and work almost like service animals, as he has
> physical disabilities that make it hard to open cabinets, retrieve
> items, and the like. His ferrets do that work for him.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 4/24/10, Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>> Hi, All,
>>
>> I thought the "Through a Dog's Eyes" program was very well done, and not
> too
>> bad in the pity department.  Yes, they did emphasize the bond between the
>> people and the dogs, perhaps over the actual physical help the dog can be
> by
>> performing tasks.  But I think they were correct that the task training
> does
>> no good in the long run if the bond and relationship aren't there.
>>
>> I also think they did a very good job of showing all the hard work that
> goes
>> into building a working team after the new partners go home from the
>> training program.  I thought the program showed very realistically how
>> careful a family has to be to foster and nurture the relationship between
>> the intended handler and the new dog in order to make the team a success,
>> especially when the intended handler is a child.  As they showed, dogs
> will
>> naturally gravitate to the most nurturing person in the family, 
>> especially
>> if the dog is less confident itself, and in most cases, it takes a lot of
>> work to teach a child to be the nurturer of the dog, especially if an
> adult
>> is doing a lot of the routine care of the dog because the child cannot
>> physically do it, and even more so if the dog is not going to school with
>> the child but is staying at home all day with the parent.  The fact that
>> left to their own devices, many of the dogs do choose a child with 
>> special
>> needs to be their person and to mutually nurture and support is truly
>> amazing and wonderful.
>>
>> And I think they did a great job of showing that things don't always work
>> out, and that it is not the fault of the new handler, or the dog, or
> anyone,
>> it just happens, and no one is necessarily to blame.  I think perhaps the
>> guide dog training schools might take a leaf from this program's book and
>> openly admit the percentages of graduate teams that end in the first few
>> months or years.  When was the last time you saw in a video from a guide
> dog
>> program several cases of guide relations that didn't work out?--and
>> presented as just a normal part of the process!
>>
>> I do think it is a great idea to let the intended handlers and the dogs
> find
>> and choose each other.  I think the success rate, even in the case of
>> long-established guide dog programs, would be at least as high using this
>> method as it is using instructor-matching .  When I went to TSE for the
>> first time, the instructors had a dog in the "house" which was there
> because
>> his person was incapacitated for a while.  I volunteered to groom and 
>> keep
>> that dog company before we got matched, and, given the choice, I would
> have
>> taken that dog home.  He was a GSD, just the breed I wanted, and had the
>> characteristics I wanted temperamentally and behaviorally.  And we just
> felt
>> comfortable together from the first moment.  Of course, that dog wasn't
>> available, and the dog I went home with worked out just fine, although we
>> did not have that instant bond.
>>
>> But I do think the dogs should have a chance to choose their people, more
>> than that the people should have a chance to choose the dogs.  I think
>> people have preconceived notions of what kind of dog they want.  But the
>> dogs go much more on "feel" and "energy."  People can be so influenced by
>> what is fashionable, or by what status they think a particular size, or
>> color, or breed of dog will confer on them, or by how the particular dog
>> will affect their image.  But dogs choose their people on how comfortable
>> they feel with that person, by how their energies match, and by how they
>> complement each other's strengths and needs.
>>
>> And I didn't get the impression that it was a complete free-for-all in 
>> the
>> matching process.  I got the impression that the dogs are introduced to
> the
>> people in a somewhat structured and controlled way, with trainers
> observing
>> and noting the dogs' and the people's responses to each other, and that
>> after seeing how all the dogs and people respond to each other, that it
>> gradually becomes apparent where most of the matches lie.  Then, as
>> described in the program, there may be a couple of more tricky matches
> that
>> the trainers need to be creatively involved in facilitating.
>>
>> I think the guide dog training programs might consider adopting something
>> like this system by letting prospective handlers interact with several
> dogs
>> over those first couple of days at the school, perhaps let them groom,
> play
>> with, or take the dogs for a leisure walk or take them to meals with 
>> them.
>> I think it would soon become apparent which people were beaming and which
>> dogs had eyes for only that one person.
>>
>> Another thing I really liked about this program was the description of
> their
>> training and handling philosophy.  They realized that the old dominance
>> theory of dog training was not going to work for their handlers, and they
>> have adopted a positive reinforcement based training method that doesn't
>> rely on force, and which takes advantage of a dog's willingness to please
>> and to work happily for rewards that are meaningful to the dog.
>>
>> I do disagree with one point in this program, and that is that dogs are
> the
>> only species that can have this special bond with people.  I know from
>> experience that the same kind of bond can grow between a person and a
> horse,
>> and I suspect that the same goes for other species which have been in
>> millennia long close relationships with human beings.  Horses, too, seem
> to
>> be able to read our thoughts.  They do seem to understand that it is 
>> their
>> job to keep us from harm in certain ways.  And they seem to accept us as
>> their "family" and to adopt roles that they might fill in their packs or
>> "bands" in the case of horses.
>>
>> I don't blame the makers of the TV program or the people from the
> assistance
>> dog program for having this canine-centric point of view.  After all, how
>> many people in this day and age have had the opportunity to develop a
> close
>> relationship with a horse, or a camel, or a llama, or an elephant, for
> that
>> matter?  Yet I believe that if we accept the animal for what it is and we
>> respect the animal and its "culture" and how it sees the world, we will
> find
>> that we can have deep and caring relationships with individuals of a
> number
>> of species and that these animals show amazing responsiveness and
> awareness
>> of us and our needs.
>>
>> Anyway, it seemed to me that this service dog training program was
> applying
>> refreshingly creative thinking to the challenges of pairing people with
>> disabilities with dogs and fostering good working and companion
>> relationships between them.  They obviously didn't just go and observe
> some
>> guide dog training programs and model their program on what was decided 
>> in
>> the 1930's and 1940's.  So I give both the Canine Assistants program and
> the
>> PBS producers high marks for producing a very interesting and
>> thought-provoking piece.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 8:53 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] PBS program link
>>
>>
>>> Here's the link to the PBS program
>>>
>>> http://video.pbs.org/video/1475527358
>>>
>>> When I went to that link the video started playing automatically.   No
>>> clue if that's just my settings or if it will do that for everyone.
>>>
>>> My thoughts on the program...
>>> I'm with Tracy, that bit at the beginning about how the dogs give the
>>> person their life and happiness was disturbing.  I also noticed that 
>>> they
>>> used, "confined to a wheelchair" which is generally not accepted among
>>> disability groups.  I was also very, very not impressed by a statement
>>> toward the end of the program about the people not being normal, then
> they
>>>
>>> get the dogs and can have a life and a job.
>>>
>>> this particular service dog program seems to place a lot of dogs with
>>> young children.  The video mentions 5 kids and only one adult.  It was
>>> interesting to see how much the parents and other family members were
>>> involved in the process.
>>>
>>> I liked the trainer, Chris.  He uses positive training methods, mainly
>>> luring.  It was really cool to see how he could use eye movement to cue
>>> the dog, very useful for nonverbal people.
>>>
>>> The program focuses a lot on the emotional aspects of service dogs.
>>> Probably 95% of what they talked about were bonding and partnership
>>> aspects and very little in actual tasks.
>>>
>>> The matching process was very, very different from what is typical in
>>> guide dog programs.  It seemed to me that they let all the dogs and
> people
>>>
>>> mingle in one big room.  The dogs and people picked each other.  I'm not
>>> sure how big the class was, but there were two dog switches, one during
>>> class and another a few weeks after returning home.  I like the concept
> of
>>>
>>> choosing your own dog, to a point. I don't know that a free for all
>>> matching process is the best way to go though.
>>>
>>> JMO
>>> Julie
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>>
>>
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