[nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

Sun Feb 21 12:50:46 UTC 2010

Pawpower Creations has a martingale collar that has the adjustment and a 
buckle, but I think theirs is all nylon.  It'll work the same, but it won't 
have the chain sound.

the one I'm currently using is made by Coastal Pet, I think.  It doesn't 
have a buckle and has to go on over the dog's head.

If I have time today I'll poke around on the internet.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

> Where can you find a chain/nylon martingale collar that has the clip (like 
> a fanny pack) to adjust the collar and also that can be removed without 
> changing the size?
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>
>
>> Lyn,
>>
>> I use the nylon and chain combo martingale collar with Monty.  I also use 
>> a clicker and treats.  Although for the past couple of months I haven't 
>> been using the actual clicker, but just a tongue click. Since I've been 
>> having good luck remembering to bring my head wherever I go, it's been 
>> working out well! LOL
>>
>> I wouldn't categorize Monty as a soft dog by any stretch of the 
>> imagination. I, personally, don't think harder dogs need harder 
>> corrections, just firmer handling.
>>
>> JMHO
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>
>>
>>> Hi Ann,
>>> I think you have a good point here in regards to dog handling. It seems 
>>> that the dog owning public are going more towards the reward system and 
>>> the "click and treat" and people are getting away from choke collars and 
>>> leash corrections that are still being used by most of the guide dog 
>>> schools.
>>>
>>> I see this trend while I work in my Humane Society programs.  They use 
>>> no choke collars on any of their dogs.  I see volunteers walking the 
>>> shelter dogs all the time and they use either a head collar, nylon 
>>> martingale collar or this other kind that is like a harness with the 
>>> leash attachment ring at the front of the chest. There is no choking or 
>>> pressure on the neck.  When I'm in our programs, I use a nylon 
>>> martingale collar on Landon and have the leash attached to that. He 
>>> still wears his choke collar that is holding his tags.
>>>
>>> In my case, the HS program people realize that my dog was trained with 
>>> the regular chain choke and therefore they don't have any problem with 
>>> me having it on Landon.  When I really need to control Landon while 
>>> visiting, I hold him by the small loop of the martingale collar but when 
>>> out on the streets, a correction with this collar has no effect on him - 
>>> he needs the chain collar then.
>>>
>>> I think GDB is starting to get away from chain collars.  They're now 
>>> using a martingale collar with nylon for the part around the neck with 
>>> the small loop being chain.  You get the chain sound while doing a 
>>> correction but not the total choking as there is with an ordinary chain 
>>> choke collar. They are also using the "click and treat" method in their 
>>> training and the dogs appear to be "softer".  I have heard different 
>>> reviews on using the clicker and having to carry around treats - some 
>>> feel it is a royal pain and others like it.
>>>
>>> Seeing Eye hasn't done this yet but they do use the clicker training 
>>> during the dog's training before we get them.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Julie and All,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have heard of other situations where non-blind people are 
>>>> reported to authorities without being directly confronted with the 
>>>> concerns first--specifically, I have heard of situations where 
>>>> babysitters and daycare workers have called child protective services 
>>>> to report suspected child abuse when they notice "black and blue" marks 
>>>> on the bodies of adopted Asian children.  These people don't understand 
>>>> that the coloration is natural and not caused by beatings or other 
>>>> abuse.  And they don't ask the parents about it; they just assume the 
>>>> worst.  I think the situation is similar to the one of a blind person 
>>>> and guide dog--well-meaning people with little knowledge and a lot of 
>>>> ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> My personal belief is that if blind handlers were instructed in 
>>>> positive training and handling methods, and if guide dogs were 
>>>> routinely trained using positive reinforcement and a marker signal 
>>>> instead of through correction, that handlers would present a more 
>>>> favorable image to the general public of their relationship with their 
>>>> guide dogs.  The handlers would have a better understanding of animal 
>>>> behavior and learning and of why their dogs sometimes do not perform as 
>>>> they "are supposed to."  The handlers would be much less likely to get 
>>>> into those situations of frustration where correction has a tendency to 
>>>> escalate. The dogs would work better and look happier.  This might 
>>>> reduce the negative impression that some members of the public 
>>>> experience when observing working teams, and might cut down on some of 
>>>> the "abuse" calls to schools.  This would not eliminate those 
>>>> situations where the blind person is accused of abuse for not allowing 
>>>> the guide dog to be petted or interfered with by ignorant members of 
>>>> the public.  But it might cut down on some of the more common excuses 
>>>> for abuse reports.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ann
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jeanine,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's very good to hear that you don't accept anonymous complaints at 
>>>>> GDF. If someone can't give their name it would make me wonder about 
>>>>> the validity of their statement.  It's too easy to make up stories if 
>>>>> you can hide behind anonymity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Got any ideas why the public doesn't address the blind person directly 
>>>>> about the issue?  Or at least why they don't try that approach first?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is tattling a societal thing or just a blind people thing?  When I 
>>>>> used to work in rehab the O&M instructor would occasionally get phone 
>>>>> calls about some blind person or another who was out alone and 
>>>>> crossing dangerous intersections or something similarly inappropriate 
>>>>> for a blind person to do. *smile*
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to think of a parallel situation that doesn't involve blind 
>>>>> people where sighted people turn each other in for perceived 
>>>>> indescressions. I can't think of any sort of situation.   of a 
>>>>> noncriminal nature.  Perhaps it is a blindness/disability thing 
>>>>> exclusively.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes I think too much! LOL
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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