[nagdu] calling the program was researching programs

Linda Gwizdak linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Sun Feb 21 17:27:01 UTC 2010 

Hi Julie,
I already have the all-nylon one.  If you can find the same thing only with 
the chain that'd be great.  Thanks!

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs


> Pawpower Creations has a martingale collar that has the adjustment and a 
> buckle, but I think theirs is all nylon.  It'll work the same, but it 
> won't have the chain sound.
>
> the one I'm currently using is made by Coastal Pet, I think.  It doesn't 
> have a buckle and has to go on over the dog's head.
>
> If I have time today I'll poke around on the internet.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>
>
>> Where can you find a chain/nylon martingale collar that has the clip 
>> (like a fanny pack) to adjust the collar and also that can be removed 
>> without changing the size?
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>
>>
>>> Lyn,
>>>
>>> I use the nylon and chain combo martingale collar with Monty.  I also 
>>> use a clicker and treats.  Although for the past couple of months I 
>>> haven't been using the actual clicker, but just a tongue click. Since 
>>> I've been having good luck remembering to bring my head wherever I go, 
>>> it's been working out well! LOL
>>>
>>> I wouldn't categorize Monty as a soft dog by any stretch of the 
>>> imagination. I, personally, don't think harder dogs need harder 
>>> corrections, just firmer handling.
>>>
>>> JMHO
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 12:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>> I think you have a good point here in regards to dog handling. It seems 
>>>> that the dog owning public are going more towards the reward system and 
>>>> the "click and treat" and people are getting away from choke collars 
>>>> and leash corrections that are still being used by most of the guide 
>>>> dog schools.
>>>>
>>>> I see this trend while I work in my Humane Society programs.  They use 
>>>> no choke collars on any of their dogs.  I see volunteers walking the 
>>>> shelter dogs all the time and they use either a head collar, nylon 
>>>> martingale collar or this other kind that is like a harness with the 
>>>> leash attachment ring at the front of the chest. There is no choking or 
>>>> pressure on the neck.  When I'm in our programs, I use a nylon 
>>>> martingale collar on Landon and have the leash attached to that. He 
>>>> still wears his choke collar that is holding his tags.
>>>>
>>>> In my case, the HS program people realize that my dog was trained with 
>>>> the regular chain choke and therefore they don't have any problem with 
>>>> me having it on Landon.  When I really need to control Landon while 
>>>> visiting, I hold him by the small loop of the martingale collar but 
>>>> when out on the streets, a correction with this collar has no effect on 
>>>> him - he needs the chain collar then.
>>>>
>>>> I think GDB is starting to get away from chain collars.  They're now 
>>>> using a martingale collar with nylon for the part around the neck with 
>>>> the small loop being chain.  You get the chain sound while doing a 
>>>> correction but not the total choking as there is with an ordinary chain 
>>>> choke collar. They are also using the "click and treat" method in their 
>>>> training and the dogs appear to be "softer".  I have heard different 
>>>> reviews on using the clicker and having to carry around treats - some 
>>>> feel it is a royal pain and others like it.
>>>>
>>>> Seeing Eye hasn't done this yet but they do use the clicker training 
>>>> during the dog's training before we get them.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:59 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Julie and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I have heard of other situations where non-blind people are 
>>>>> reported to authorities without being directly confronted with the 
>>>>> concerns first--specifically, I have heard of situations where 
>>>>> babysitters and daycare workers have called child protective services 
>>>>> to report suspected child abuse when they notice "black and blue" 
>>>>> marks on the bodies of adopted Asian children.  These people don't 
>>>>> understand that the coloration is natural and not caused by beatings 
>>>>> or other abuse.  And they don't ask the parents about it; they just 
>>>>> assume the worst.  I think the situation is similar to the one of a 
>>>>> blind person and guide dog--well-meaning people with little knowledge 
>>>>> and a lot of ignorance.
>>>>>
>>>>> My personal belief is that if blind handlers were instructed in 
>>>>> positive training and handling methods, and if guide dogs were 
>>>>> routinely trained using positive reinforcement and a marker signal 
>>>>> instead of through correction, that handlers would present a more 
>>>>> favorable image to the general public of their relationship with their 
>>>>> guide dogs.  The handlers would have a better understanding of animal 
>>>>> behavior and learning and of why their dogs sometimes do not perform 
>>>>> as they "are supposed to."  The handlers would be much less likely to 
>>>>> get into those situations of frustration where correction has a 
>>>>> tendency to escalate. The dogs would work better and look happier. 
>>>>> This might reduce the negative impression that some members of the 
>>>>> public experience when observing working teams, and might cut down on 
>>>>> some of the "abuse" calls to schools.  This would not eliminate those 
>>>>> situations where the blind person is accused of abuse for not allowing 
>>>>> the guide dog to be petted or interfered with by ignorant members of 
>>>>> the public.  But it might cut down on some of the more common excuses 
>>>>> for abuse reports.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ann
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] calling the program was researching programs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeanine,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's very good to hear that you don't accept anonymous complaints at 
>>>>>> GDF. If someone can't give their name it would make me wonder about 
>>>>>> the validity of their statement.  It's too easy to make up stories if 
>>>>>> you can hide behind anonymity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Got any ideas why the public doesn't address the blind person 
>>>>>> directly about the issue?  Or at least why they don't try that 
>>>>>> approach first?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is tattling a societal thing or just a blind people thing?  When I 
>>>>>> used to work in rehab the O&M instructor would occasionally get phone 
>>>>>> calls about some blind person or another who was out alone and 
>>>>>> crossing dangerous intersections or something similarly inappropriate 
>>>>>> for a blind person to do. *smile*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to think of a parallel situation that doesn't involve 
>>>>>> blind people where sighted people turn each other in for perceived 
>>>>>> indescressions. I can't think of any sort of situation.   of a 
>>>>>> noncriminal nature.  Perhaps it is a blindness/disability thing 
>>>>>> exclusively.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes I think too much! LOL
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net

More information about the NAGDU mailing list