[nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Mar 12 16:05:52 UTC 2010


Tracy,

We have them in Portland, too.  /lol/  Also, I have a talent for connecting
to the one group of people on a street corner here on business who have no
idea where they are, either.  /lol/  And then, on the dinky streets, I will
mutter to myself, reminding myself of the street name and where we need to
go, and someone will boom out the information I'm recalling.  /lol/  Or they
will offer to take me there.  Sweet, but, really.  I'm okay.

People are funny critters, I guess.  The zombies can be really maddening,
though.  They also just stand there staring blankly when you need to get on
the bus and they don't.  Mitzi's gotten pretty good about zipping us around
them, though, so I guess they can zone out in peace without being run into
by a hurried blind person.  But all the construction going on downtown
(still!) does add it's challenges.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:00 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs

Hi Tami.  I think you're right.  I enjoyed reading your philosophizing.

You left out what I call the commuter zomby, though.  Commuter zombies
don't help, even if I ask for help.  "Is this the line for the 168 bus?" 
20 people, and no answer until I start muttering under my breath.  Are
they waiting for me to make eye contact or something?  Not gonna happen!
But I think the zombies are a big city phenomenon.
Or why is it that 5 people will ask me if I need help crossing some dinky
street, and at some hairy intersection with loud construction going on no
one does? Oh well.
Tracy


> Sometimes being respectful of people who aren't being respectful of you is
> the best form of self-defense.  Probably because you have to respect
> yourself first, so that shows.  Or somethng.  /smile/
>
> I can find trouble just fine without going out looking for it...  Kidding!
> One of the perceptual issues of my own I have finally come to understand
> is
> that people trouble has to come to me, so the sorts of people who are tha
> much trouble are suddenly *very* noticeable!  Since they're often standing
> in my way or impeding my progress somehow or even just being loudly
> obnoxious -- or, heaven forbid, grabbing my arm or my cane or my dog -- I
> have no choice but to notice them and allow them to take up a portion of
> my
> concentration and attention.  So it used to seem like they were all over
> the
> place!  Then I would add things up and realize that a little incident here
> and there, with maybe a bigger Incident with a capital "I" thrown in for
> kicks, seemed like it was happening everywhere all the time, even when it
> really wasn't.  So I started adding up the "normal" interactions with
> people
> in my head.  Ah!  Fewer than 1 percent of the people I interact with in my
> daily life and travels over time cause problems.  Another small percentage
> is mildly annoying.  That still leaves more than 95 percent of people --
> probably more like more than 98 percent -- who just go about doing what
> people do whether I'm there or not.  On the other side of the scale, a
> certain percentage is really great in their interactions, which is how I
> expect people I interact with to be.  /grin/
>
> Since I don't see people who are simply minding their own business and
> letting me mind mine, I forget they're there unless I think about it.  I'm
> more aware of them through sound and my other senses now that I'm much
> more
> adapted to blindness, but I still try to remind myself to remember their
> presence if I'm feeling frustrated or bothered by the jerks.
>
> Another thing I realized, once I stopped worrying so much about it all --
> which took some time, I admit -- is that walking everywhere in a city of
> avid, cheerfully pedestrians, provides me with tons of human interaction I
> wouldn't have driving my car (I still have dreams about driving!).  At
> first, this seemed to be too much, even though I truly adore people in
> general.  Feeling self-consciously about the long white cane in my hands
> and
> worrying about tapping people's heels and whatever, whatever, I would have
> this constant feeling I was being watched...  And I couldn't watch them
> back!  Oh, no!  /lol/
>
> I don't think we can get away from cultural attitudes toward gender, and
> human responses to masculinity vs. femininity seem to be pretty well
> hard-wired, since that's what keeps us making more humans.  /smile/  The
> vulnerable, feminine woman (perceived that way, anyhow) inspires people to
> come to her rescue whether she needs it or not, just by walking by.  They
> probably don't even noticed they're being inspired any more than she's
> doing
> anything active to inspire them, because it's just instinct.
>
> Then you have the snotty, obnoxious, tomboy types like me, and people
> don't
> consider leaping to my rescue.  Which means, of course, that people who do
> decide to "help" me generally seem to be more interested in controlling me
> or some such than in assisting.  So I get real mad.  /grin/
>
> Okay, now I'm just procrastinating and waxing philosophical.  It is an
> interesting topic, though.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:24 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>
> Hi,
> I think gender is a consideration on how people react to us as blind
> people.
>
> If you are a large, masculine person, people will respond to you
> differently
>
> than if you a a small, feminine person.
>
> As a masculine person, I won't be "protected" from harm and I don't get
> bothered by people too much - I'm also an Orange Belt in Soo Bahk Do and
> use
>
> the techniques to stop a problem in its tracks.  I am very loud when I
> want
> to be! (grin!)  I find that little, feminine people get people running to
> assist them and "protect" them when trouble comes their way.  Howwever, I
> don't go looking for trouble and I try to be respectful of all people.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>
>
>> Tracy,
>>
>> It's hard to say, really, if it's because I'm a woman who is blind or
>> just
>> because I'm blind.  Maybe it would be more accurate to say the gender
>> perception is on my part?  And it could have more to do with size and
>> build
>> than with how body parts are organized.  /smile/  When my physical space
>> is
>> violated -- and that now extends to my dog -- I guess there's part of me
>> that would like to be big and brawny enough to have the option of
>> knocking
>> the offender down.  /rin/  Moreso, there have been a few times I've
>> realized
>> they were likely to knock me down because they were doing the big bad
>> bully
>> thing, clearly seeing a blind person as easy prey.  It hasn't ever gone
>> that
>> far, outside of the living skills program, but I do not like feeling
>> vulnerable that way!
>>
>> I'm also probably a lot more anxious when I perceive even a possible
>> physical threat because I was assaulted there, and I am still having to
>> pay
>> for treatment for injuries from more than one staff person.  So I'm sure
>> I
>> have more of a tendency to wonder if someone acting hinky is going to
>> "get"
>> me and wonder if I need to be prepared to "get" them first or if I can
>> "get"
>> them to not "get" me, or whatever.  It's not a way I am accustomed to
>> thinking or feeling, and it's not really all that dramatic and strong,
>> just
>> uncomfortable.
>>
>> I do associate those feelings with growing up in a place where women
>> would
>> be doing great to move up to second class citizen.  Now that I'm back in
>> the
>> ranks of the insignificant, not "real" people, I do sometimes feel
>> there's
>
>> a
>> gender bias involved where they may not really be.  Huh...
>>
>> Either way, the regular encounters with boneheads, bozos and jerks need
>> to
>> be dealt with constructively, even if that just means getting them out
>> of
>> your way so you can continue down the sidewalk.  /smile/  Whatever
>> motivated
>> a person to do something negative or even harmful or dangerous is not
>> what's
>> important.
>>
>> Learning to deal with the negative emotions that I experience as a
>> result
>> is
>> difficult, but that's another of those things we each have to learn to
>> deal
>> with in our own way.  /smile/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:57 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>>
>> Tami, are you sure you're getting the helpless idiot treatment because
>> you're a woman?  I get it too, and it drives me buggy, but my husband is
>> losing his sight, and one of the things he hates about it is that so
>> many
>> people treat him like a helpless idiot.  I don't know how to help him
>> deal
>> with it, either.  There is the old snappy comeback "only my wife calls
>> me
>> sweetie" for instance, but it's hard to have the snappy comeback when
>> you
>> need it.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> Oh, the gender difference drives me batty sometimes.  Well, quite a bit
>>> of
>>> the time.  /grin/ I prefer using direct, clear communication to convey
>>> and
>>> receive thoughts and ideas.  But, no, I've developed this extensive
>>> repertoire of indirect, even -- I daresay! -- passive aggressive, means
>>> of
>>> convincing people to just stay out of my way and let me go about my
>>> business.
>>>
>>> It has been very hard to get used to, as has being treated like I'm
>>> insignificant and helpless and, well, you know a l'il lady.  Ugh!  I
>>> don't
>>> notice it so much now that I've had plenty of exposure, but at first it
>>> just
>>> got me all hot and bothered.
>>>
>>> The awareness that li'l ol' me and my funny poodle dog represent blind
>>> people and guide dog users the world over also makes dealing with the
>>> everyday space invasions, disruptions, obstructions, etc., more
>>> stressful.
>>> It also makes coming up with a response I can live with difficult.  I
>>> guess
>>> I've adapted enough to have all those schticks and spiels and whatever
>>> to
>>> keep it down to a bearable level, and I'm used to it enough that I
>>> don't
>>> even notice it sometimes, or at least I accept it as part of walking
>>> around
>>> doing my thing.  Especially when I have to take the bus or the train to
>>> do
>>> my thing!  I love having the bus and train, and I love riding them and
>>> listening to the people around me because I am an inveterate people
>>> watcher.
>>>
>>> I just prefer the people to stay out of my space and mind their own
>>> business! /lol/
>>>
>>> I've also decided to go ahead and be effing rude when someone crosses
>>> the
>>> line and a civil response doesn't work to get them back onto their own
>>> side.
>>> If onlookers want to think that blind people are inherently obnoxious
>>> because of it, oh, well!  If they're close enough to observe my
>>> response/reaction, they're close enough to see what provoked it.  I
>>> can't
>>> help it if they have no judgment of their own!
>>>
>>> Every now and then when I start yapping on about some of these things
>>> we
>>> li'l blind ladies have to put up with -- either something I heard about
>>> or
>>> something that happened to me -- to DD, he gets all manly and
>>> belligerent.
>>> "I just don't have patience for that sort of thing," he will say
>>> darkly.
>>> "I'll only put up with it so long.  Then I'll cold cock 'em!"
>>>
>>> Ah, to be a big, tall, strapping fella!  /grin/  In theory, that
>>> simple,
>>> straightforward, direct solution to the problem sounds much too
>>> tempting.
>>> Then I remember that I don't have the physique for it anyway, so I
>>> couldn't
>>> really make it work.  Which is probably why I can cheerfully admit to
>>> letting my brain carry on with images of cane whacking someone about
>>> the
>>> head and shoulders while my good sense searches for a practical
>>> response.
>>> /evil grin/  The mental image is very, very satisfying to my inner, uh,
>>> whatever you want to call it; also, the imaginary cane is much more
>>> substantial and impressive a weapon than the light things I actually
>>> carry
>>> in my back pocket or purse.  Unfortunately, actually following through
>>> on
>>> the image would just make me look really, really, foolish and,
>>> honestly,
>>> completely nutty.  /grin/
>>>
>>> Not that DD goes around knocking down people who annoy him!  Which is a
>>> good
>>> thing for me. /grin/  Still, he does have the option of looking stern
>>> and
>>> puffing up the muscles just a bit to remind people he can if he wants
>>> to.
>>> I
>>> try that on, and it just gets me more grief.  That posturing is
>>> something
>>> I
>>> do when ribbing with my buds to make them laugh.  /lol/
>>>
>>> Stepping between someone and my dog is something I do, too, but then
>>> I'm
>>> face to face with some fool who doesn't respect me.  It will suddenly
>>> occur
>>> to me that this may not turn out well for me if the person's aggression
>>> turns physical.  Apparently, my years growing up as a skinny, shirley
>>> temple
>>> clone of a brainy girl taught me something, because in my youth
>>> actually
>>> pulled that sort of thing off with violently mentally unstable (too
>>> much
>>> of
>>> that inbred population!) men who were working up to an assault on one
>>> or
>>> another of my friends.  There I would suddenly be, nose-to-nose with
>>> someone
>>> much bigger than me bent on irrational violence...  Oops!  But they
>>> always
>>> backed down in the end.  Huh.  Then I grew up and moved away and didn't
>>> have
>>> to use that strange little skill until I started going about being all
>>> blind
>>> and stuff...
>>>
>>> Then again, I've been paying a lot for physical therapy for attacks
>>> from
>>> behind from people who were being paid to help me.  So now I have this
>>> sense
>>> of vulnerability that I really hate.  I've also learned some techniques
>>> to
>>> adapt my cowgirl physical self-defense skills to use on humans.
>>> Haven't
>>> had
>>> to use that, but wish I had gone with my gut when the attacks occurred!
>>> I
>>> had not previously been subject to physical violence in my adult life,
>>> so
>>> just wasn't expecting it, tried to remain calm and use passive
>>> self-defense
>>> unstil I could deal with it in a civilized manner...  Oh.  Bad move on
>>> my
>>> part.  We blind people are, like or not, fair game.  Those people who
>>> inflicted the injuries I continue to recover from -- and that others
>>> are
>>> paying to recover from -- still have jobs.
>>>
>>> Speaking of learning things the hard way!  Be careful what you type
>>> when
>>> you're using JAWS and have dogs around. /lol/  I took a little break
>>> and
>>> was
>>> putzing in the kitchen, bent over to pick up something I had dropped
>>> just
>>> as
>>> Daisy hound decided to dash in front of me...  Taking a coonhound skull
>>> ridge to the orbital bone didn't quite cold cock me, but I have felt a
>>> little strange for the past few minutes.  Apparently, she is more
>>> hard-headed than I am.  /grin/
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jeanette Beal
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:58 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>
>>> I'm wondering how much of the interaction between public and dog is
>>> gender-based to the handler? As a woman, I know that I'm interacted
>>> with
>>> on
>>> a slightly different level than men - called 'little lady' by
>>> many-a-older-guy on public transit, etc. I know there was a study done
>>> recently (um, 20/20 special so not really a study) with a blind man & a
>>> blind woman trying to buy pastries in a shop and the woman was actually
>>> stood up for/defended more readily by an incredulous public than the
>>> man.
>>> Is
>>> this because women are inherently viewed as inferior and in need of
>>> protection? Probably.
>>> So when a female handler walks around with her dog is it  much easier
>>> to
>>> disregard her and interact with her dog? Perhaps. I've had men spit in
>>> my
>>> face because I told them to leave my dog alone. Granted he spit in my
>>> face
>>> after he started petting my dog and I said no and he said F-off and I
>>> said
>>> oh really? And stepped between dog & dude and dude then pushed at me so
>>> I
>>> slapped him in the face and he spit on me and then....ran away. But the
>>> main
>>> point was I said no and he said "so?" and continued his bad behavior.
>>> I have a hard time with this subject. It's so rooted in my need for
>>> safety
>>> in public as a woman - using public transit and getting groped by a
>>> dude
>>> behind or next to me feels as dirty and disgusting as unauthorized
>>> petting
>>> of my dog by a stranger. So how do I reconcile my need for safety and
>>> autonomy with the day-to-day hassles all handlers have in public?
>>> I do so by not allowing people to pet my dog. By demanding that I be
>>> asked
>>> first. By expecting my answer to be respected - if I say no it means
>>> no.
>>> This goes for my body as much as my dog's.  And unfortunately the
>>> waiting
>>> public takes away that I'm a rude, withholding human. But my safety is
>>> more
>>> important than public image.
>>> Unfortunately we aren't in a vacuum and all blind people speak for all
>>> blind
>>> people in front of AB folks. So when someone lets the public pet their
>>> dog
>>> in harness they send a message that I will to. And when I say no and am
>>> assumed rude I send a message that all blind people are rude.
>>> It's a crappy inter-connected all-disabled-folk-are-the-same world.
>>> Jeanette
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Albert J Rizzi
>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> now there is the honest one in the group. I must confess that I too
>>>> enjoy
>>>> it
>>>> when people take notice of my handsome lad. I do stop to let him take
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> praise at times, though I always take his harness off. Now before you
>>>> all
>>>> go
>>>> mad about that, it is a conscious decision I make and am willing to
>>>> make
>>>> for
>>>> my dog and all the good work he does, I feel that if time allotted
>>>> when
>>>> I
>>>> take the harness off it reinforces the work thing and out of work
>>>> thing
>>> for
>>>> the dog. It also embarrasses  the petting offender and they always
>>>> insist
>>> I
>>>> not go to any great lengths, which always allows for a honest and open
>>>> I
>>>> really should bet t my meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>> who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:39 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> Hmm...  Maybe someone should make a project out of finding a mutt-ugly
>>>> scurvy cur, slappying a guide dog harness on it and heading out into
>>> public
>>>> to see what happens?  /grin/  I've thought of designing a special
>>>> poodle
>>>> cut
>>>> to uglify Mitzi...  I could have the groomer do her all lopsided and
>>>> patch
>>>> and stuff, then put odd dye patches on her here and there...
>>>>
>>>> Whaddaya think?  Should I go for it?  /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe someone could invent a spray, like that stuff that is
>>>> supposed
>>>> to
>>>> keep pets away from certain areas.  In fact, isn't it called "Pet
>>>> Away?"
>>> or
>>>> stomething?  Maybe if we sprayed are dogs with anti-human pheromones
>>>> we
>>>> could go about our business in peace? /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Okay, so my dirty little secret is that I've sort of gotten to enjoy
>>>> the
>>>> attention my poodle gets, now that we've learned to deal and move on.
>>>> Unless she's in hussy mode, in which case, I just have to deal until I
>>>> can
>>>> make a graceful exit or haul out the jaws of life to separate her from
>>>> the
>>>> bestest friend ever she just made.  /smile/  I figure I can embarrass
>>>> myself
>>>> enough that I may as well let the dog find ways to embarrass me so
>>>> long
>>>> as
>>>> it makes everybody happy...  Sigh.  Maybe it has something to do with
>>>> living
>>>> in Portland?  Part of me remembers the place as the oversized redneck
>>>> town
>>>> of my youth; it's fun talking to long-time resident cabbies who
>>>> remember
>>> it
>>>> the same way.  But in the past (I will not admit how many) years, it's
>>>> grown
>>>> and changed along and now it's sort of...  Funky? Funny? Kind of
>>>> getting
>>> to
>>>> be cosmopolitan but with a super progressive political bent and a
>>>> strong
>>>> flavor of small-town friendliness.  It can make going out and about a
>>>> lot
>>>> of
>>>> fun, in a funy, weird way.
>>>>
>>>> So long as one remembers to take into account the growing number of
>>>> homeless
>>>> people with dogs of uncertain temperament downtown...  That population
>>>> has
>>>> grown over the past few years, and while the scary dogs we've passed
>>>> have
>>>> been kept under control by their ragged and dirty humans, it seems to
>>>> take
>>>> a
>>>> lot of effort from the human to keep the dog from going for my sweet
>>>> precious.  Yikes!  Still, with the housing situation here, as in so
>>>> many
>>>> places, it's to be expected.  Sigh.  Otherwise, though, Portland is a
>>>> pretty
>>>> cool place.
>>>>
>>>> You just don't stand a prayer of going more than five steps without
>>> someone
>>>> saying something about your dog.  /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:05 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> What if we all got the ugliest dogs imaginable? Do you think that
>>>> would
>>> cut
>>>> down on the petting distractions?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>> who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marsha Drenth
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:39 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> Now here is where I have seen a improvement. My husband purchased me a
>>> sign
>>>> for my pup for the harness for Christmas, and she has been wearing it
>>>> since.
>>>> Granted not all that long. But I have had only one person try to pet
>>>> my
>>> pup
>>>> since. I don't think this person could read, and most likely had other
>>>> disabilities. Before, I had so many people try to pet her. I was
>>>> trying
>>> and
>>>> just dreaded going places because of the number of people who wanted
>>>> to
>>> pet
>>>> her. So in my situation, the sign has definetly worked wonders!
>>>>
>>>> JMO
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs was guide dogs
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the signs make any difference anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I have a sign on Monty's harness that says "Please don't pet me I'm
>>>> working".  For folks who have difficulty with words there is also a
>>> picture
>>>> of a hand reaching to pet a dog with a giant red slash through it.
>>>> You'd
>>>> think people would get the hint, but they don't. I have noticed
>>>> absolutely
>>>> no difference in the amount of petafiles since I started with the
>>>> sign.
>>>>
>>>> Just today I had some guy reach out to pet Monty just as we're getting
>>>> ready
>>>>
>>>> to cross the street of all things.  He explained that he had been
>>>> petting
>>>> the dog in training on the college campus earlier.  As if that made it
>>> okay
>>>> or something.  Torks me.  But Monty got my revenge, he backed up and
>>>> gave
>>>> the death ray eyeball look.  LOL  Go Monty!
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Meghan" <meghan at n-republic.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > No, they don't give you a sign for the harness, but you get cards
>>>> that
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>> > can hand out.
>>>> >
>>>> > They make it clear that they discourage petting, but they advise you
>>>> on
>>>> > how to approach it if you are going to allow it, too.
>>>> >
>>>> > Hope that helps,
>>>> > Meghan
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Jennifer L Finley" <jenniferfinley at embarqmail.com>
>>>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:28 PM
>>>> > Subject: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Does the seeing eye have the please don't pet me signs?  Do they
>>>> use
>>>> >> anything to let the public know to not pet the dog?
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> nagdu mailing list
>>>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> >> nagdu:
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/meghan%40n-republic.n
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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