[nagdu] rejected by the lions club?

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Tue May 4 21:16:08 UTC 2010


Oh, my!  How long a list can I give you?  /grin/  Better yet, how can I even
begin to sum up?

It's not the ins and outs of behavioral/task training, that's the easy part.
Granted, guide dogs need to learn a daunting number of behaviors and tasks
to begin with, some quite complex.  So teaching the behavioral, more
strictly "obedience" parts is still quite a process.

It's the teaching the dog to then take those behaviors and tasks out on the
road...  In a decision-making capacity!  Without taking the ultimate
decision-making from you, the trainer/handler.  As Julie has said, you start
small with your pup, you expose it every way you can on leash as part of the
socialization and obedience phase, but then, sooner or later...

You take that show on the road.  Where anything can and will happen and
you're not really in a position to know what it is that's happening, what
with being the one who needs a guide dog in the first place and all.  Only
what you're communicating to your dog by then is that it is the dog's
responsibility to keep you safe with all the things happening, including the
shockingly unexpected things that sometimes come rolling out of nowhere!  Or
even the kid's bike on the sidewalk that's normally clear.

You also have to keep your own wits about you, because you're still
teaching, and give the dog confidence and reward it for making good
decisions about going around the blike or blocking you from walking into the
rogue shopping cart shooting down the hill from the parking lot...  Or who
knows?

But it's a young dog that is still growing into the maturity to stay on
task, especially as it begins to grasp the responsibility involved in the
job, which, really is a bit much for a kid, you know.  /smile/

So how do you know when the dog is going around a kid's bike on the sidewalk
or trying to pretend it's leading you around something so it can snag
something really bad for it over there in the grass?  So you're trying to
teach the dog to be responsible and make good decisions and stay on task...
When you don't always know which is which.  It becomes very difficult not to
second guess the good decisions or reinforce the bad....  Which sort of
interferes in the training process, so you end up having to have way too
much patience with both yourself and the dog.  /smile/  And you always know
that at some point, you're going to want that do to *refuse* to obey you, no
matter what you think you know about what's ahead, so you really need to
teach the dog when to say no because it perceives more of the environment
than you do.  Tricky, really.

Also, it's up to you at that point, to keep both of you safe because the dog
isn't trained well enough yet.  Yikes!

The problem solving in all of that is challenging, to say the least.  Even
if you enjoy a challenge, you really need to do things right or blow it for
your dog.  Only you don't want to pressure yourself over it, because the dog
will pick that up, and that will screw up your dog...  /lol/

When you see the growth and good results and light of understanding, that's
a thrill worth millions.  Greatest feeling ever!

So then it's time to expand a bit and go through the whole thing again in a
more challenging environment....

And you really don't have anyone going along with you or behind you to coach
you on how to approach any given new challenge with a dog, and especially
with that dog.  So you're always growing as you learn to navigate the new
and unfamiliar and as you communicate the dog's role effectively enough that
the dog will, you certainly hope, be ready to take on that responsibility at
some indeterminate point in the near future.  You hope.  /smile/

And about the time you think you've got it all figured out, something comes
up you didn't plan for or even begin to imagine....  

So you stretch yourself, constantly, to be a better communicator with your
dog, a better decision-maker, a better navigator and detector of weird
things flying through the environment, to be more patient, to not get too
controlling but to be safer while not letting the dog take too much
control....

It's a fun sort of stretching if you like that sort of thing and can
appreciate the adventure of being beyond your comfort zone personally as
well a geographically.

Anyway, that's how I see it for me, and I'm sure that even though I would
like to believe I've got it figured out, my next dog will teach me better in
about five minutes.  /grin/  But I enjoy stretching myself and being
stretched, so that's okay. /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:43 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] rejected by the lions club?

How? How will owner training stretch a person in ways they never dreamed
of? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 8:09 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] rejected by the lions club?

Jessica,

I want you to understand that I only want the best for you and that I
will 
help you out in any way that I can.

You have to be your best advocate.  That is just as important as the 
training of your puppy.  When you choose to owner train its all you all
the 
time.  The people on this list, including me, can't be there to walk you

through the challenges that will come.  We will offer support, 
encouragement, training ideas, even help with access challenge issues,
but 
in the end it is you that must do the hard work.

If you feel that the Boy Scouts or high school volunteers would be
helpful 
make some phone calls and make those connections.  I don't want to come 
across as harsh or uncaring and I think I'm doing just that, but I
cannot 
stress enough that owner training is much, much more than just training
a 
dog.  It will stretch you in ways you never dreamt of.

All my best,
Julie




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] rejected by the lions club?


>I have no idea nor how to find out.
>
> On 5/2/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Just an idea, but are there any groups locally--scouts, Honor
Society,
>> etc--that have teenagers that may be able to help you in some way?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jessica Pitzer" <rolosgirl at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] rejected by the lions club?
>>
>>
>>> Go for it. For me so far the costs have been shipping for the dog,
>>> equipment, food, soon I will be paying vet care, training, etc. I
was
>>> just asking for a little help whether it be money or time, even if
>>> they'd just help us go for walks, take us places for soialization
etc.
>>> Jessica
>>>
>>> On 5/2/10, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org> wrote:
>>>> Well, first we have someone who understands some of what goes into
some
>>>> people's choices  in their options for mobility. We also have
another
>>>> misinformed individual who knows nothing of the handlers who prefer
to
>>>> owner
>>>> train their dogs. We also have a person who has a strong
affiliation 
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>> school that the Lion's Club committed raises funds for. So, perhaps

>>>> there
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> an opportunity to educate miss rosemary on the fact that some
people 
>>>> are
>>>> very adept at training their dogs and that as a president of a
chapter
>>>> she
>>>> needs to be better informed before she offers advice or as I have
>>>> interpreted the tone, condemnation for those who choose to owner
train. 
>>>> I
>>>> would be happy to suggest forwarding this email to our lion's list 
>>>> serve
>>>> and
>>>> ask them their opinion, and I would even offer to write her, for I 
>>>> myself
>>>>
>>>> am
>>>> a lion and would welcome the opportunity of opening her eyes to the
>>>> truths
>>>> about guides and options with everything that is Lionism. She is
just
>>>> unaware and ignorant of what is possible in this regard, and may
>>>> obviously
>>>> be getting her skewed  opinion  from the organization  which she
and 
>>>> her
>>>> club give so much money to and get so much publicity from for doing
so.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jessica Pitzer
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:53 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] rejected by teh lions club?
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> following is an email I received in response to an email I sent to
my
>>>> local lions club about asking for help with some of the costs of
owner
>>>> training. I'm.. not quite sure how to feel right now except baffled
as
>>>> we have some many owner trainers and I just embarked on this
journey
>>>> myself.
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> On 5/2/10, Rosemary Richert <rosemary at richertnet.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Bert,
>>>>>
>>>>> It is highly unusual, and questionably irresponsible, for someone
to
>>>>> train
>>>>> their own guide dog.  The state only recognizes service animals
which
>>>>> have
>>>>> been professionally trained.  Any other such dogs may be banned
from
>>>> places
>>>>> which would otherwise allow access to service animals.  Necessary
>>>>> training
>>>>> of the dog is very comprehensive and time consuming.  And, 
>>>>> subsequently,
>>>>> training of the blind person with the dog is, also, very
comprehensive
>>>>> and
>>>>> time consuming.  For the person's training, alone, three weeks of
>>>>> on-site
>>>>> training with the animal determined best suited to their needs is
>>>> required.
>>>>> The blind person needs to prove their orientation and mobility
skills
>>>> before
>>>>> even being accepted into a training program.  Without proof of the
>>>> adequacy
>>>>> of those skills, they will not be accepted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I served on the Board of Directors of Leader Dogs for the Blind
for 
>>>>> four
>>>>> years, and am the person who convinced the facility to become
trainers
>>>>> for
>>>>> the blind/deaf community...to the best of my knowledge, it remains
the
>>>> only
>>>>> facility with qualified instructors of deaf/blind individuals.  I
tell
>>>>> you
>>>>> this, so that you may understand that I have a credible background
in
>>>> these
>>>>> matters, and know whereof I speak.  I would strongly caution your 
>>>>> Lions
>>>>> club, or any other Lions club, about considering involvement with
a
>>>>> person
>>>>> who thinks they can train a guide dog for the blind on their own.
>>>>> Involvement under such circumstances could come back to haunt an
>>>>> otherwise
>>>>> well-meaning club.  It would make much more sense for this person
to 
>>>>> be
>>>>> screened as to qualifications; and, if qualified, be sponsored to
a
>>>>> recognized service do training program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your kind consideration.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> God bless.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With Lionism at Heart, C
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PDG Rosemary
>>>>
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>>>
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