[nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?

Thu May 13 14:31:58 UTC 2010

Hi Marion,

Though I do hear what you are saying, I think that it is important to
keep a good sense of humor.  I also feel that jokes like the pastor
made should be saved for those persons who are good friends of the
blind person.

On 5/13/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Cheryl,
>     In my opinion, even if the pastor was making a joke, Kathryn felt
> offended by it. Jokes founded in stereotypes are in poor taste and are not
> funny. Kathryn felt publicly humiliated by her Spiritual leader. His example
> as such a leader not only reinforces the stereotypes many hold about
> blindness, they also lend approval to others who hear such comments to make
> similar distasteful jokes! I am of the opinion that public humiliation
> deserves a public apology.
>     This can be done in a way that creates a positive outcome for Kathryn,
> in particular, and the blind, in general. The Master Teacher taught us that
> "Those who humble themselves shall be exalted!" Though this sounds like a
> paradox, it is a social phenomenon that is very true. When someone humbles
> themselves by making a sincere apology, those who hear their apology see
> that person as a stronger, more credible individual.I once mentioned
> recently what is called a "teachable moment". this is one of them!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cheryl Osborn" <chapalacheryl at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?
>
>
>> Hi Cathryn,
>>
>> Are you sure that your pastor wasn't just making a joke?  As for
>> people in general,  they can be very patronizing with their comments
>> without realizing it.  It's up to you to let them know what you are
>> capable of.  If blind people came with a set of instructions, we would
>> all have to do everything the same way. <grin>
>>
>>
>> On 5/12/10, Cathryn Bonnette <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> All:
>>>
>>> I am very interested in this discussion since recently my pastor remarked
>>> from the pulpit that congregation members had helped me with moving, and
>>> "every box we moved she fell over." Actually, I had not fallen over
>>> anything
>>> the entire day, and I definitely regretted my risk in asking for
>>> assistance
>>> from church members when I had several other sources available.  The
>>> perception seems to be that I am amazing if I can walk down the street
>>> without falling, and similar evaluations of my "inspiring" capabilities.
>>> Am
>>> I crazy, or is this type of comment demeaning and offensive??? The folks
>>> making comments seem to believe they are being encouraging and
>>> appropriate.
>>> I will confront this issue with this pastor- probably tomorrow evening
>>> when
>>> we generally talk by telephone. I would be most appreciative of thoughts,
>>> ideas, suggestions from this group since I am relatively new at dealing
>>> with
>>> this issue- becoming blind late in 2005.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any comments etc. you may be able to provide.
>>>
>>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:44 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] "Starting a Dialogue?
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>     I fully appreciate the sentiment that "starting a dialogue" is a far
>>> better approach to this issue than protesting it. As for the Foundation
>>> Fighting Blindness, I have written to them on a number of occasions to
>>> share
>>>
>>> how their view of blindness and the information they disseminate does
>>> more
>>> harm than good to the blind. I also know that, in the case of FFB, some
>>> of
>>> their very involved blind volunteers have also shared their concerns
>>> about
>>> the approach they employ to no avail.
>>>     In addition to FFB, I have also expressed my concerns to other
>>> organizations that employ the fear factor in raising funds and
>>> "awareness"
>>> (please notice quotes, as it is not, IMO), including some of the
>>> Lighthouses
>>>
>>> for the Blind and Prevent Blindness. Their tactics, however, are very
>>> fruitful for them, helping raise their much-needed revenue. Furthermore,
>>> they have the support of those in the blind community who feel indebted
>>> to
>>> them for the help they have received, as well as those who have a
>>> negative
>>> view of blindness and cannot see the proverbial "forest through the
>>> trees",
>>> as they generally enjoy the coddling, having been taught by these
>>> organizations that this is the best they can expect of themselves and
>>> should
>>>
>>> accept the good will of the public who, after all, "are only trying to
>>> help"! This brings up another applicable proverb: "The road to hell is
>>> paved
>>>
>>> with good intentions!"
>>>     "Starting a dialogue" implies that one has not yet been attempted.
>>> Not
>>> only has it been attempted, the NFB has published information that I have
>>> shared on this list concerning the dangers of simulation exercises such
>>> as
>>> "Dining in the Dark". Furthermore, as I have also stated on this list,
>>> the
>>> few people who pay $100+ per plate to eat in the dark are not the only
>>> ones
>>> impacted by this inaccurate portrayal of the incapacity of the blind.
>>> When
>>> news releases are circulated by these "experts on blindness" (again, see
>>> quotes, as they are not!), the media accepts the stereotypes and reports
>>> on
>>> them, not only by reporting on the event, but by believing such
>>> inaccuracies
>>>
>>> as our compensatory abilities and heightened senses, using such
>>> misconceptions in future reporting!
>>>     Whether discrimination is founded in hatred or in pity, it is founded
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>> the same underlying ignorance. If we are to be seen as equals, we must be
>>> treated as equals. differential treatment founded in the pitifulness
>>> simulation exercises promote do nothing to bring us to the point of
>>> equality. Rather, it relegates us to a second-class status in which we
>>> are
>>> seen as needy! This results in many people seeing me, no matter how
>>> successful I may be, and saying "There but for the grace of God go I!"
>>> They
>>> are really saying, "Oh, poor man! I am glad I am not like him!" They have
>>>
>>> no
>>>
>>> clue how full and wonderful my life is and, most likely, imagine it to be
>>> very depressing! After all, "If I were blind, I would kill myself!" How
>>> many
>>>
>>> times have we all heard this? I, personally, would rather be blind than
>>> dead! JMHO!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>>> And isn't starting a dialogue a great thing and a good step toward
>>>> dispelling misperceptions about our abilities
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:55 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>
>>>> Hey Margo,
>>>> Look at it this way - the waitors are all real blind people.  Yes, the
>>>> sighted diners are bumbling around but they do see how efficient the
>>>> genuine
>>>>
>>>> blind waitors are in serving them!
>>>>
>>>> It's all just a gimmick that can start a real dialog on blindness.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> but while they are in the experience, they must think we're so helpless
>>>>> because they're blundering about trying to figure out how to dine while
>>>>> blindfolded.  I do not like blindness simulations at all.  Makes us
>>>>> look
>>>>> helpless.
>>>>>
>>>>> margo and arrow
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:31 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I never went to a "Dining in the Dark" event - too expensive! But, I
>>>>>> know
>>>>
>>>>>> some people who worked for it a few years ago here in San diego.  I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>
>>>>>> think it is around anymore as those people have moved on to other
>>>>>> jobs.
>>>>>> They never said that the "Dining in the Dark" was bad towards
>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>> After all, everyone had fun and had the knowledge that the blindfold
>>>>>> come
>>>>
>>>>>> off or the lights get turned on and they go off to live their sighted
>>>>>> lives. I see this as a gimmick to fundraise with and I have no problem
>>>>>> with it. I see no harm in it.  the people know that the waitors are
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> really blind and that is something positive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as a "realistic" experinece for sighted people, I think it is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same as doing a "White Cane Safety Day" and having people don
>>>>>> blindfolds
>>>>>> to walk with a cane. It makes people aware that they actually have
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> senses other than sight that really do influence their movement in the
>>>>>> envirnment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It probably is like a person who is newly blind and hasn't learned any
>>>>>> skills yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy Mother's Day to all you Moms out there in NAGDU-land!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:07 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am curious, as we seem to find fault in the dining in the dark
>>>>>>>experience
>>>>>>> has any one of us attended one of these events to find out first hand
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> blindness is presented at these events? I recall the response to
>>>>>>> letters
>>>>>>> sent to Florida highlighting the sensory appreciation of food devoid
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> sight influencing one's taste or preference over what to try and or
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> try.
>>>>>>> It would be interesting   to here from someone with first hand
>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>> with attendance at one of these events.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Julie J
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:28 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The article says it was established in 2008.  I suppose that is in
>>>>>>> reference
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to the US school, since the one in Canada has been around for a
>>>>>>> while.
>>>>>>> That's pretty recent and could be why no one has heard of it before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the whole concept of "Dining in the Dark" is not very
>>>>>>> productive
>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the long run.  Helpful in raising funds, yes, but pretty low in any
>>>>>>> meaningful understanding of blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JMHO
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:06 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why haven't we heard of who? Mira or the Carolina Eye thingy? Mira
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> been around a while, but I didn't know they were expanded into the
>>>>>>>> US;
>>>>>>>> Mira is a guide dog school in Quebec. (They teach their guide dogs
>>>>>>>> French.)
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Margo and Arrow wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> got problems with this--dining in the dark and why haven't we heard
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> them before?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Margo and Arrow
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toni Eames"
>>>>>>>>> <eeames at csufresno.edu>
>>>>>>>>> To: <gdui-friends at yahoogroups.com>; <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 12:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Partners With Mira Foundation
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wednesday, May 5, 2010
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> <http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/may/05/carolina-eye-partners-mira-foundat
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ion/>http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/may/05/carolina-eye-partners-mira-fou
>>>>>>> ndation/
>>>>>>>>>> Mira Foundation USA, a nonprofit dedicated to providing guide dogs
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> children in need, announces Carolina Eye Associates as one of the
>>>>>>>>>> organization's founding corporate partners.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mira USA is the only nonprofit providing guide dogs to visually
>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> young children in the United States. The two organizations both
>>>>>>>>>> share
>>>>>>>>>> the same concern and commitment to providing young children with
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> resources - and companions - that enable personal independence and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> freedom of mobility.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye is also the headline sponsor of Mira USA's upcoming
>>>>>>>>>> "Dining
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in the Dark" fundraiser event taking place May 14 at the Country
>>>>>>>>>> Club
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> North Carolina in Pinehurst.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Mira USA is an organization close to all our hearts, and we
>>>>>>>>>> admire
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> passion with which they've tackled the huge job of providing these
>>>>>>>>>> specially trained guide dogs to young children across our
>>>>>>>>>> country,"
>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Greg Mincey, of Carolina Eye Associates. "We are proud to be a
>>>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>> of Mira USA's mission for improving the lives of children in need
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> guide dog and invite other companies and organizations nationwide
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> join us in supporting their effort."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Dining in the Dark" is one of many community activities held to
>>>>>>>>>> raise
>>>>>>>>>> awareness and funds to support the work of Mira USA. The concept
>>>>>>>>>> began
>>>>>>>>>> in Germany and has spread to cities where restaurants offer a
>>>>>>>>>> unique
>>>>>>>>>> twist on a normal dinner out: guests gather to wine and dine in
>>>>>>>>>> darkness. With the complete loss of vision - and the resulting
>>>>>>>>>> heightening of the other four senses - Dining in the Dark will be
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> extraordinary adventure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "This is the first time such an event has been presented in North
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina," said a spokesman. "Reserved seats are filling quickly
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> this dinner as the community has embraced both the novelty of the
>>>>>>>>>> event
>>>>>>>>>> and the mission of Mira USA."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We are grateful to have the support of the distinguished team at
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Associates," said Robert Baillie, Mira USA founder
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> chairman. "There are over 57,000 visually impaired young children
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> United States and ours is a big undertaking to begin to serve this
>>>>>>>>>> largely overlooked population by providing specially trained
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> dogs. I've experienced how the dog can provide a bridge between
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> child and the community, diminishing the stigma often associated
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> disabilities, and with the support of the public and organizations
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye, we will give as many children as possible this
>>>>>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>>>> gift of independence and companionship."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MIRA Foundation USA Inc. is dedicated to enriching the lives of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> largely overlooked population of young children living with
>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> by providing specially trained service dogs. Mira USA was
>>>>>>>>>> established
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2008 by Robert Baillie. Having suddenly lost his sight and
>>>>>>>>>> realizing
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> life-changing difference his guide dog Devon made for him, Bob set
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> to improve the experience of individuals living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> These
>>>>>>>>>> special dogs and services are given to children free of charge.
>>>>>>>>>> Although
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mira USA will provide dogs to all who qualify, its main focus is
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> children 11 years of age and above. Mira USA believes everyone
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> have access to the tools and resources that enable personal
>>>>>>>>>> independence
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and freedom of mobility, and invites you to be a part of it. Learn
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> at <http://www.mirausa.org>www.mirausa.org or (910) 944-7757.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina Eye Associates is one of the largest eye-care practices
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Southeast, with eight regional eye-care centers in North and South
>>>>>>>>>> Carolina. Carolina Eye was established in 1977 in
>>>>>>>>>> Pinehurst/Southern
>>>>>>>>>> Pines, N.C., by Dr. Robert Gale Martin and Dr. George Tate Jr.
>>>>>>>>>> Since
>>>>>>>>>> then, patients from across the United States and more than 20
>>>>>>>>>> foreign
>>>>>>>>>> countries have come to Carolina Eye for eye care needs. For more
>>>>>>>>>> information, please visit
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.carolinaeye.com>www.carolinaeye.com.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Cheryl in Mexico
>> chapalacheryl at gmail.com
>>
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chapalacheryl at gmail.com