[nagdu] GDF's step refusal

Fri May 28 16:00:22 UTC 2010

I have the same issue and I'm totally blind. I also have times when am 
extremely dizzy and have difficulty with orrientation as well.
Hope and Beignet
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal


> Thank you Linda. So it sounds like you're saying your problem with an
> ear infection is not being able to hear traffic, Rox and me seem to have
> a problem of literally not knowing where objects are in relation to us
> when we get colds. Rox, that about right? Anybody else?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:38 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal
>
> Hi Rebecca,
> As a partial, I don't have this problem but many of the totals I know do
>
> have this orientation problem while stuffed up. Head colds tend to
> affect
> the ears and nose.
>
> If I have a bad ear infection that affects my hearing, then I have
> trouble
> because I can't hear the traffic.
>
> So, no, you're not an oddball! (grin!)
>
> Cheers, and hope that cold goes away soon!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal
>
>
>> Interesting. And I'm wondering does everybody who is blind have
> trouble
>> with colds and orientation? I literally walk into walls when I have a
>> cold, I don't do this when I don't. I wonder how specific this is to
>> blindness because I've observed that sighted people seem to get a cold
>> and are able to keep on truckin; wheras I can't. Anybody else have
> this?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jenine Stanley
>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:33 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal
>>
>> Jewel,
>>
>> You're mostly correct in that step refusal is a bit different from
>> standard
>> intelligent disobedience but it's really subtle.
>>
>> In your case, a dog would be trained, at GDf anyway, for help with
>> balance
>> on stairs and would position itself so you could balance using the
>> additional handle on the harness as you went up and down, one step at
> a
>> time.
>>
>> I believe Dar's dog does this so she can give you a more accurate
>> picture of
>> how they work it.
>>
>> The average GDF grad using step refusal may really need it during
> times
>> when, say, their orientation isn't as great as others. An example is
>> when
>> you have a bad head cold and your hearing isn't what it should be to
>> give
>> you the cues you need. You might normally be able to tell that the
> stop
>> your
>> dog made was for several steps down or an entire flight of them within
> a
>> stairwell, but with your hearing obscured, you might not catch this.
>> That's
>> when it really pays off.
>>
>> Yes, some dogs do it naturally, having never been taught it. They know
>> when
>> you aren't paying attention or when something is too big to handle and
>> you're clearly not ready for it.
>>
>> At GDf we just train every dog to do the step refusal. If you keep it
> up
>> once home, you have it in case you need it. If you don't keep it up
>> though,
>> the dog won't do it reliably in most cases.  Oh, the dog will
> generally
>> stop, unless you condition it not to do so by allowing or encouraging
> it
>> to
>> step down first. That's what we do teach dogs who help with balance on
>> stairs.
>>
>> Hope that helps. It's one of those concepts that often doesn't even
> make
>> sense until you go through the training. Some people will love and use
>> this
>> skill. Others will find it pointless, even after training.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jewel S.
>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 11:57 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal
>>
>> Excuse that less message; the computer messed up on me!
>>
>> What I wanted to say was...
>>
>> I think step refusal is a bit different from the regular intelligent
>> disobedience, and please correct me if I'm wrong about this. But as I
>> see it, this would be good for someone who has balance issues or poor
>> motor skills. For example, I need to take one step at a time, knowing
>> the edge of each step and the depth before putting my full weight on
>> each step. A dog trained in step refusal would know that I am not
>> supposed to keep going without having my balance right. I might step
>> as if I think it's a flat surface, and the dog would be like "No, I
>> don't think so...you're going to fall, Jewel" and refuse to step until
>> I adjusted my balance properly. Otherwise, I am likely to knock myself
>> and perhaps the dog off-balance and do a drunken-man walk down the
>> steps or fall altogether. I've done both.
>>
>> My thoughts,
>> Jewel
>>
>> On 5/23/10, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> b
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/20/10, Steve Johnson <stevencjohnson at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>> Now, if a dog is properly trained and not with this particular
>> skillset,
>>>> shouldn't they essentially be doing this anyway?  I can tell you
> that
>> my
>>>> dog
>>>> and my past dogs would never take me down or up something that is
>> just
>>>> simply too much.
>>>>
>>>> JMT
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jenine STANLEY
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:13 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] GDF's step refusal
>>>>
>>>> since there seems to be a little confusion about our step refusal
>>>> procedure,
>>>> let me try to explain it.
>>>> Step refusal is a procedure used when you come to a downward flight
>> of
>>>> stairs. The rationale is this.
>>>>
>>>> Usually when you are walking and your dog stops at a change in
>> elevation,
>>>> say a curb or single step down, You pause, maybe investigate if
>> necessary
>>>> and give the "forward" command, assuming that the next step you take
>>>> after
>>>> stepping down onto the lower surface will be in the same plain, in
>> other
>>>> words, on flat ground. This may not always be the case.
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever been, say, outside or exiting a building and what you
>>>> thought
>>>> would be one step down turned into 2 or 3? It's not a fun feeling as
>> you
>>>> skid down those unexpected stairs that you just told your dog you
>> were OK
>>>> with and knew about.
>>>>
>>>> Step refusal is a check and balance, a command process that has been
>>>> taught
>>>> to both you and the dog to use as you wish. More on that later
>> though.
>>>>
>>>> Step refusal as it's taught during class, and I know, some GDF
> grads'
>>>> milage
>>>> may vary here, begins with you and your dog stopping at the top of a
>>>> flight
>>>> of stairs. Even if you have asked your dog to "find steps down" and
>> your
>>>> dog
>>>> has taken you to the right side hand rail if there is one, something
>> GDf
>>>> dogs are taught to do, Your dog technically is not supposed to move
>> until
>>>> you have investigated the space and put your left, not right, foot
>> down
>>>> on
>>>> the next step. This, in theory anyway, shows the dog that you are
> not
>>>> just
>>>> blithely stepping out into space because you are in a hurry.
>>>>
>>>> During class this is taught by having the person swing the right
> foot
>>>> forward as if to step out. The dog should not move. If it does, a
>> slight
>>>> verbal correction is given.
>>>>
>>>> Then the person steps down with the left foot, issues the "forward"
>>>> command
>>>> and the dog moves down the stairs as usual.
>>>>
>>>> People who have their dogs trained for balance work on stairs do
> this
>>>> differently and I won't detail that as it's different for each team.
>>>>
>>>> OK, you ask, but in the real world, do people actually use this?
>> Truth be
>>>> known, many GDF grads either do not, or change the foot from left to
>>>> right.
>>>> It's there if you need it though but only if you routinely practice
>> it
>>>> now
>>>> and then and actually use it once in a while.
>>>>
>>>> How is it different from, say, just stopping at a change in
>> elevation?
>>>> Albert was correct in that once you stop, the dog is waiting on you
>> to
>>>> reposition yourself then give a command. It's really another form of
>>>> intelligent disobedience in which the dog is waiting for you to be
> in
>> a
>>>> safe
>>>> position, one foot firmly planted on the next step, before moving
>>>> forward.
>>>>
>>>> It's not unlike the stop the dog would make at, say, a train
> platform
>>>> edge
>>>> or edge of a hole. The dog wants you to investigate and be sure of
>> your
>>>> footing before moving. We just added downward steps to the list of
>>>> obstacles
>>>> for such intelligent disobedience.
>>>>
>>>> Can you break your dog of this command? In a heartbeat. You can also
>>>> untrain
>>>> your dog to stop at any change in elevation by simply forcing the
> dog
>>>> enough
>>>> to just go up or down without even a pause.
>>>>
>>>> A well coordinated team can almost look and feel as if they don't
>> pause,
>>>> but
>>>> I know I at least try to pause slightly at an upward change and if
>> not
>>>> come
>>>> to a complete stop, at least do a longer pause at a downward change.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that better explains step refusal. It's often misunderstood,
>> by
>>>> both
>>>> grads and others and is a lot more subtle than it sounds.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40
>> cent
>> urytel.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g
>> mail
>> .com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway
>> .com
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2890 - Release Date:
> 05/23/10
>> 14:26:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%
>> 40tasc.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40c
> ox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%
> 40tasc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu