[nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Danielle Larsen dnlarsen75 at gmail.com
Sat Nov 27 20:04:29 UTC 2010


hey lora!
Your dog coming from TSE I know that they are taught at puppy raiser
meetings to work on recall on leash. aybe going back to the basics with some
of the techniques that were used on your dog as a pup will help.
We work on recall wit them very much the same way it is taught in class only
we start shorter and get mroe extensive. We start on leash and have thems it
and rest like just the distanec of hte leash,a nd then call them to come.
you can kid of guide thema s they are on leash and throw them a huge praise
party for coming when called!
eventually we work on teh recall (figure 8) obedience sill that you probably
learned in class. once you've maswtered an extended lead sit and rest to
come. With this recall/figure 8 we just hve the pup walk "forward" and hten
extend the leash. Back up and call the dog to come. This works on both the
come command and some basi cskills for you too. as the dog comes towards you
they will come in front of you. We finish it by taking two steps forward and
putting them in a sit on the left hand side.
Like I said I'm certain you've learned this all before most likely, but this
is how we work on it with the pups. We also have used a flexi lead in the
apartment to practice, giving mreo and more distance, but inevitably forcing
them to see what hte command means.

Teaching our puppies not to bark is definitely a challenge, and depending
hte puppy and motives for barking it take s aawhile. Normal alert barking we
work on from day one, putting one hand on either side of their snout and
holding their mouth closed. we sternly correct them with the command "NO!
Quiet!"  (or hush, depending).  They usually learn fast. attention barkers
take more work ebcause if htey bark for attention then if you correct them
they are getting attention and bark moer. But if you ignore htem they keep
barking. We often will use a squirt bottle combined with a harsh correction
or a loud sound like a can of coins to startle them. Once with an attention
barking shepherd we used a spray bottle ONCE and she has not done it since.
haha.
We also work on it at puppy raising meetings etc.

anyway, I hope that youv'e gotten some good info abotu working on recalls.!

If there is any other info you want, feel free to ask!
If you have puppy q's you can ask or email me off list too (I'm nto suer how
many others are interested in this ha). My email is dnlarsen75 at gmail.com

Hope you're all staying warm!!
-D
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Lora <blindhistory at gmail.com> wrote:

> I got my dog from TSE.
>
> On 11/27/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > Yeah.  I don't know that I would give a program dog the freedom I give
> > Mitzi.  We started early enough that we were able to work up to it, and
> her
> > breed is good for running loose, since they naturally run out and then
> run
> > back.
> >
> > Poor Daisy never had a chance to just be free in a yard until after Mitzi
> > and I moved in, and I ended up spending a lot of time and attention on
> > monitoring her every move when we were out there at first because she
> just
> > would go nuts.  Well, she was still psycho hound back then, so managing
> her
> > was extra tricky.  Prohibiting unwanted behaviors and redirecting her
> > without setting off her anxiety and fear aggression mean using tiny, tiny
> > steps, and it took time to really reach her.  It was only about a year
> ago
> > that she had her lightbulb moment and clicked on the operant
> conditioning.
> > Whew!  She's made a lot of progress since, but she's still fairly
> > high-maintenance.
> >
> > Well, you wouldn't have her problems with a guide dog, so I'm straying.
> > Just saying that I agree with you that you can't let a dog run if it
> hasn't
> > been trained to come back and to be safe while it's running.
> >
> > I do like hearing about the people who take on the task to achieve that
> > training themselves.  /smile/  Doing off leash training, especially once
> you
> > can let the dog have some distance, is very challenging to do
> nonvisually.
> > Also, very nerve-wracking, since it's hard not to imagine that your dog
> is
> > doing something you're both going to regret.  I really struggled with
> that
> > at first.  Also, I used a lot of antacids.  /smile/
> >
> > Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Dan Weiner
> > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 4:46 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
> >
> > Just a note:
> > I like the idea of dogs running in open spaces.
> > Until either the schools put a good recall on the dogs or we achieve it
> > ourselves we're asking for problems.
> >
> >
> > Cordially,
> >
> > Dan W.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:30 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
> >
> > Dan and Lora,
> >
> > Sometimes it's the orthodoxy that is ill-advised.  /evil grin/  I'm a big
> > proponent of freedom to run play in wide open spaces.  Apparently, most
> if
> > not all U.S. guide dog programs are against that sort of thing.  At least
> > they used to be; I hear they're getting less uptight about it lately.
> >
> > The key is to find a place where your dog will be as safe as possible to
> run
> > and play and even socialize with other dogs.  Especially at first,
> because
> > reliable recall and boundaries take time to learn.  Also, it seems that
> > reliability is a matter of maturity, so you need to maintain protections
> for
> > a wild and crazy dog until at least the age of 5.  /smile/  Well, the
> level
> > of total reliability I'm referring to there means that the dog is
> > self-disciplined and obedient enough to walk with its owner off-leash
> around
> > a city neighborhood without getting into trouble or endangering itself or
> > others.  Used to be, Portlanders would take their well-trained,
> > well-mannered dogs all over the place that way -- farmer's markets,
> street
> > fairs, community picnics, you name it.  Then people started taking their
> > untrained, ill-mannered scurvy curs to those venues, so now those of us
> who
> > have taken the time to train our dogs have to keep them on leash even
> though
> > the law still says on leash or under control.  Oh, well!  Mine is just
> now
> > mature and reliable enough for me to consider wandering around a farmer's
> > market or such with her off leash, and I would be using her as a guide
> > anyway. Still!  I would have loved an opportunity to see all that
> patience
> > and perserverance come into play, just a time or two.  I'm silly that
> way, I
> > guess.
> >
> > So the 5-year maturity limit is only if you really want to have a dog
> that
> > is totally reliable off-leash in unfenced areas.  I do, so I've been
> working
> > with Mitzi poodle on that since January of '07...  While I still limit
> > potential risks when we're doing our thing with no physical connection
> > between us, she's pretty awesome and I don't worry much these days.
>  Also,
> > she truly does jingle guide and squeak guide with her ball, so it's great
> > for just walking around in the great outdoors with her.  /smile/
> >
> > I put bells on her collar so I know where she is, and I always reinforce
> > recall and minding boundaries.  Which I can now set on the fly, so that's
> > cool.  I have no need to take her on a sidewalk near traffic, and would
> not
> > choose to do so.  However, it is nice to know that if for whatever
> strange
> > reason I have a need for her to be off-leash, she would be fine.  I did
> > actually manage to lose my leash at the park a couple of years back and
> was
> > astonished at how well she did coming home without it.  It was a pretty
> safe
> > walk, except for a couple of passages, but she was awfully darn good,
> > especially considering her age and general level of overall snottiness.
> > Love her, but she is Mitzi poodle, after all.  /grin/
> >
> > Incorporating interactive play into your off-leash time also does
> wonders.
> > You can do a lot of reinforcing your training without actually doing any
> > training.  And you can both get lots of exercise while having fun
> together.
> > You can praise a behavior your dog makes in the course of play ("Good
> bring
> > it!), then reward the dog by throwing (or kicking) the ball,which is the
> > reward.  It's a fun way to have a dog that listens and responds well
> during
> > off leash romps.
> >
> > With my ulta high-energy wild and crazy curly girl, I have done my best
> to
> > follow a couple of hard and fast rules for myself:
> >
> >       1.  Always reward recall.  Always!
> >       2.  Never give a command you know your dog will not obey.
> >
> > Oh, and when it comes to teaching your dog to pay attention to you when
> it
> > counts...  Smelly treats!  If they're much too expensive and you can't
> stand
> > yourself when you have a pocket full of them, then you're probably on the
> > right track.  /lol/  Early on, especially, using rank bribery to start
> > conditioning obedience is definitely the way to go.  Dogs are
> > scent-oriented, so a smelly treat will get the dog's attention and bring
> it
> > to you, even when said dog was planning to run by you demonstrating that
> it
> > has no intention of coming to you just because you called it.  I speak
> from
> > experience there.  /grin/  It's a way to condition the dog to come
> whether
> > it wants to be conditioned or not.  /lol/  I could still see Mitzi well
> > enough on sunny days to catch her expression when that start kicking in.
> > She was so mad!  But she couldn't help herself because, well, you know...
> > Smelly treats are smelly treats.  Yum!
> >
> > Don't know if any of that is helpful in your situation.  It was fun to
> > suddenly find myself thinking back through all the fun (and sometimes
> scary)
> > times with my curly girl, seeing those sunny days in the park by my old
> > apartment with far more clarity than I probably really did....
> >
> > Now, I need to remember how to walk around the house I live in on this
> dank
> > and dreary winter's night... /lol/
> >
> > Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
> >
> > Tami Smith-Kinney
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Dan Weiner
> > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:39 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
> >
> > Well, just my opinion.
> > First of all, with outside do you mean a fenced-in area or an open space
> > with no borders?
> > If it's fenced-in, then really no harm done and let him run around and
> get
> > rid of pent up energy.
> > If it's totally open, I would say that letting her off lead is
> ill-advised.
> > Perhaps you could buy a flexi-lead to give your dog more space to roam
> > without getting away.
> > I have a fifteen foot nylon leash I bought about 15 years ago, one foot
> per
> > year--lol.
> > The problem is that your dog can get tangled up in it.
> > So, fenced-in area, all right, open area, not so hot--smile.
> > Indoors, well, and this is just a general comment, I find that people are
> > really uptight about everything their dogs do. How can your dog learn
> what's
> > expected without freedom in the house. Besides, keeping him/her on leash
> if
> > it's your home will make you a nervous wreck and start feeling like a
> > burden.
> > Even the best guide dogs I've seen will eventually do something silly in
> the
> > house, so don't sweat the little stuff.
> >
> > Perhaps unorthodox but my two cent worth anyway.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Cindy Ray
> > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 1:33 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
> >
> > Um, I wouldn't let him outside off leash myself. As for inside, are you
> > doing obedience? Often the dogs really need that for a while before you
> can
> > get what you are looking for. I do obedience on leash sometimes; then as
> a
> > final exercise I do it off leash to see if he'll do it.
> >
> > CL
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> > To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:27 PM
> > Subject: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
> >
> >
> > After about six months I have been trying to give my guide dog freedom
> > outside and inside. He still gets into trouble mostly outside. He
> > won't listen off leash. Any suggestions?
> > --
> > Lora
> >
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>
> --
> Lora
>
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