[nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment, & Behavior

Lisa Irving lirving1234 at cox.net
Thu Apr 21 05:00:24 UTC 2011


Gary,

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep some of your gems near by. I find, 
overall, this list-serve is quite helpful. You're included too.

Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, Temperment, 
& Behavior


> Hi Lisa:
>
> As a first time guide dog handler I was quite insecure about if I was 
> doing things right or wrong with Bogart. However, I am a person who 
> researches things when I am interested and don't know so I soon llearned 
> that I need not be insecure. I thought the trainers would have all the 
> answers for me but I have learned that sometimes they come up with real 
> gems but most of the time my common sense approach is the same as what 
> they suggest. Also, I had the learning curve of how dogs are and how my 
> dog inparticular is. The first time he threw up on our morning walk I was 
> a bit flipped out but I hadn't noticed him eating grass a couple of 
> minutes before that. The fact that he sometimes doesn't eat his food 
> worried me to death but then I learned he is a poodle and when he is 
> stressed he chooses not to eat to make his point I assume. The passive 
> agressive poodle. :) I recall when I first brought bogart home my 
> girlfirend (who has had many dogs) and I got into a bit of a discussion 
> since she wanted to give Bogart some sort of yummy meat and I said no, I 
> was told not to do that with him. I ended up talking to  the head trainer 
> at my school and he was very common sense. He basically said, look dogs 
> are dogs. We used to just give them our scraps. So yes, you need to think 
> about what you give him but odds are, if you do not over do anything and 
> pay attention to the out comes (which you get to pick up every day) then 
> you'll see what your dog can tolerate or not. I recall learning that 
> Bogart can't have  shrimps if I don't want to offend the world the next 
> day with the oders that he produces. The nextday at work was so 
> embarrassing. We sprayed the air deodorizer in my shared office but then 
> we learned that the deodorizers smell was too strong and we had to leave 
> our office because of that smell. In my next meeting Bogart let one go 
> that had us all gasping. the poor guy. :) So now I know about that.
>
> Basically I've learned that I can ask the school for some assistance in 
> the same way I ask my questions on this list. However, no matter what 
> anyone says, in the end I weigh everyone's input and do what I feel is 
> best for Bogart and myself. Now I worry much less about Bogart and 
> realize, with most things, I need to see how he is the next day before I 
> start thinking of taking him to the vet. I have pretty low opinions of 
> vets (heck, I have pretty low opinions of doctors too <smile>).
>
> Okay, now I'm rambling and can't recall why I was responding. :)
>
> Enjoy the day
> Gary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lisa Irving <lirving1234 at cox.net>
> Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:37 pm
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health, 
> Temperment, & Behavior
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> It's healing to share my story. For years I beat my self up
>> about what I didn't do for my dog.  And yes, the school's
>> response played into how I internalized things.
>>
>> When I called the school to inquire about my guide dog, I recall
>> the individual being icy and formal. I think this is a part of
>> her personality and not meant to be personal. However, it was
>> personal for some years.
>> Some affirmations and re assurances would have gone a very long
>> way had they been genuinely conveyed; or conveyed at all.
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> was that
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney"
>> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health,
>> Temperment,& Behavior
>>
>>
>> >Lisa,
>> >
>> >Painful story.  I'm sorry you had to go through it but am
>> glad you have the
>> >courage to share.  Others may be going through the same
>> thing -- or will --
>> >and knowing they're not alone may give them both comfort and
>> strenghth. And
>> >perhaps more information they can use to resolve their own
>> issues/problems>before it's also too late.
>> >
>> >If I may ask, since you mentioned your guilt feelings -- do you
>> recall how
>> >many times, if any, the program trainer and/or staff told you
>> that you were
>> >the one doing things wrong.  I confess to being overly
>> cynical in
>> >automatically assuming that that was their first response to
>> your concerns
>> >about the behavior.  I just have noticed that those
>> involved in resources
>> >for PWDs, the consumer is always wrong and should be informed
>> of that in the
>> >most demeaning and even cruel way possible.  As many times
>> as possible.  I
>> >don't understand this phenomenon, and I don't know if my
>> understanding will
>> >do anything at all for anybody on the receiving end, but
>> ...  I still would
>> >like to understand it in case I can figure out how to do
>> something useful in
>> >some way to prevent those same people carrying on doing that to
>> the folks
>> >they're being paid to serve.
>> >
>> >Which is why I'm happy NAGDU is following through on the
>> creation of the
>> >Bill of Rights.  Guide dogs are a resource -- provided by
>> the charitable
>> >donors known as funding sources -- so for all the really good
>> people who do
>> >as they should with character and intelligence and diligence to
>> strong>ethics, there do appear to be an unfortunate percentage
>> of bad apples. I'm
>> >coming to the conclusion, based on consistent behavioral
>> patterns across
>> >organizations and resource types, that there's some sort of, I dunno,
>> >personality type or something like that which is drawn into
>> that sort of
>> >work which has nothing to do with a desire to help anyone at
>> all.  These
>> >same personalities seem to be the first ones to go on about how
>> grateful we
>> >should be for the wonderful things they're doing for us, etc.,
>> etc., we've
>> >all heard the whole spiel, when they're so clearly putting
>> forth their best
>> >efforts to ensure we don't receive the help they're being paid
>> to give us...
>> >
>> >So I think it's important to share our individual stories and
>> to communicate
>> >our ideas with the increased freedom we have on the
>> internet.  That's been
>> >happening more and more, as a result of the earlier work of
>> organizations>like the NFB -- primarily that of the NFB in our
>> cases -- and that power to
>> >interact and communicate gives us more power to add to those very
>> >organizations.
>> >
>> >We can also communicate that the bad behavior is not okay and
>> then work
>> >collectively to make it more difficult for the bad apples to
>> spread the rot.
>> >Whew!
>> >
>> >Tami Smith-Kinney
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >Of Lisa Irving
>> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 11:36 PM
>> >To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health,
>> >Temperment,& Behavior
>> >
>> >Marion,
>> >
>> >Without making things too complex, is there some way to include
>> verbiage>about disclosing observations made by the puppy raiser
>> family(s)? Here's the
>> >
>> >context to my question.
>> >
>> >The puppy raiser family informed  me about the dog
>> allergies. The school
>> >didn't know, or disregarded the puppy raiser's observations. I
>> don't want to
>> >
>> >confuse "observations" with "opinions". One is measureable and
>> can be
>> >validated; observations. Again, it was the puppy raiser family
>> that informed
>> >
>> >me, after my guide dog was released, of the school's findings
>> and medical
>> >intervention for the infections.
>> >
>> >Lisa and Bernie
>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala"
>> <blind411 at verizon.net>>To: "NAGDU List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:10 AM
>> >Subject: [nagdu] Bill of Rights statement Concerning Health,
>> Temperment,&>Behavior
>> >
>> >
>> >>Dear All,
>> >>   Here is the proposed language for the Bill of
>> Rights, Please offer any
>> >>input or suggestions you may have.
>> >>
>> >>The training program shall fully disclose to the consumer, in
>> writing and
>> >>in the accessible format of the consumer's choice, all known issues
>> >>concerning the dog's health, temperament, behavior, and
>> training prior to
>> >>placement.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Fraternally yours,
>> >>
>> >>Marion
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
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