[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Mon Apr 25 02:08:00 UTC 2011


Yikes!  This confirms my decision to stand my ground even if that would mean
that program didn't give me one of their precious dogs because the
interviewer didn't like my attitude because I simply didn't want to strain
any muscles demonstrating I could handle a dog I didn't want in the first
place.  I was more tactful than that, but trust me, I was getting pretty
close to pushing that envelope in trying to get my point of view across.
Don't waste my time with this!  Don't waste your time, or your selection
committee's time or the trainer's time or the instructor's time, and don't
pay for my transportation if this is what you have for me.  Also, don't make
the person who would be happy with this dog wait because you've somehow
decided you know best what I need when I have told you as politely as I can
that I am not interested.  In her efforts to get me to fulfill the
requirements of demonstrating that I could perform a two-handed leash
correction to make one of their dogs behave, I am certain she did not mean
to communicate to me that was the best they could do.  I knew that wasn't
true at the time -- it couldn't be, reasonably, no matter little experience
I had in the guide dog world (none!).  But she did end up telling me just
that quite a few times.  Also, she did go on about the danger of socks a
couple of times while we were talking, and I had a difficult time reminding
myself that it was simply not possible that this well-established,
productive, highly regarded guide dog training program cannot poosibly, in
reality, consistently, 100 percent of the time, who are too stupid not to
eat the first sock they find on the floor and choke themselves to death
eating it.  It is not statistically possible.  A dog that stupid could not
lead a blind human through the human world, no way now how.  I will not say
what I am thinking...   /lol/  For a long time after that, though, every
time I met a guide dog user with a dog from that program, I would catch
myself being terribly worried and wonder if I should somehow save them from
their stupid, disobedient dogs.  No, Tami!  That is *not* how it is!  See
the nice doggy!  See the nice doggy guiding the blind person!  See how safe
the blind person is!  Oh, what a smart doggy!

Funny how communication works, isn't it?  Or not.  /smile/

I glad you would not accept a dog that was not right for you that would
cause injuries.  I'm sorry ou had to go to such great lenghts to do that
*after* you traveled to the school having arranged a month out of your real
life for that.  I'm sorry someone else had to wait an extra month for
*their* dog because someone thought they knew better than you what you
needed.  Sigh.  Mistmatches will happen, even with the best and most honest
and well-racticed communication on both sides.  That's just how life is.
But when one or the other side works really hard to avoid communicating
either way....  I wonder what the dogs are thinking while we daft humans try
to figure out what we're doing?  /smile/

Glad you're happy with your present partner in crime.  Gotta love the GL.
You don't even have to correct, really, since the dog corrects itself.  Or
so with Mitzi, and even Daisy.  If you just keep hold on the leash, the dog
stops pulling on its end of the leash and there you are.  No need to make it
difficult...  Well, I have to admit.  Mitzi is a stubborn little beast and
still tries to get her way around the horrible medieval torture device which
I have inflicted on her just to ruin her life for cramping her style.  And I
still have to be very stern with myself lest I fall for her ploys because I
am total sucker.  Teehee.  What fun would it be to take her for a nice sniff
'n stroll on leash otherwise?  /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of d m gina
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:30 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

Yes when I was at pilot dogs they gave me a dog who needed more 
corrections than the Bible ever offers in any chapter.
I finally said my arm is so sore I will not do this, I was told that I 
didn't know how to handle dogs.
I dropped the leash and went to the head insttructor.
Saying why in hell did you let me come here if I don't know how to handle
Now either you get me a dog that will work or something to make this 
bitch do her job correctly.
Pam was so shocked she left, and I spoke with Ray where he understood 
what on earth I was saying.
He told Pam that it would be better for me to have a collar on this dog
You can put all of the collars on a dog you wish, if they still wish to 
be out of line they will.
Trust me I was so mad.
This doesn't happen often, but I wasn't going to be told I didn't know 
how to handle a dog.
This morning in mass, kids were throwing food on the floor.
So not to say a word to the mother, I said no in a very stern voice.
Then I got the gentle leader out and put it on my dog.
His attitude changed, he decided it was good to be good.

Original message:
> Dar,

> My one home interview and Juno walk gave the interviewer some surprises on
> that score.  I did demonstrate what to me seemed an excessive two-handed
> leash correction when she asked for that.  She was not satisfied at all!
> She wanted me really put my all into it.  I was taking a death grip on
> Juno's leash and digging my heels into the ground ready to swing that
> stubborn, two-legged guide dog clear around and throw it if I could when
> something occurred to me.

> I didn't want that in a guide dog.  Why strain my muscles convincing her I
> could handle that strong a dog in case that's what they matched me with
> that is not the kind of dog I wish to matched with.  So I simply dropped
> leash and briefly and casually explained my rationale, thinking this would
> save time and energy for everyone...  /lol/  Apparently, this is not what
> she expects from a first time guide dog applicant who is so clearly
> desperate for a guide dog (I only look like an adult; I'm as gushy about
> guide dogs as anyone else).  I guess I'm picky even when over a fluffy
> wonderful thing I desperately want.  Also, I still think that if I don't
> want a hard dog that requires two-handed leash corrections, then it's best
> to just to say so outright.  They can match that dog to someone who will
> appreciate it and for whom it will work well instead of trying to convince
> me that's what's best for me and trying to get me to take that dog home to
> use as a guide dog.  Waste of time, because I'll leave without it if it's
> really going to require that much energy on my part.  And in that case,
> also a waste of the time of the person who would be a good match with the
> dog in the first place.

> Anyway, she and didn't have a knock-down drag-out over in the middle of
> sidewalk, but we did demonstrate to each other that if Juno wants to be
> stubborn about something, I can be stubborn, too.  /lol/  She was correct
> and courteous through the rest of the Juno walk and interview, and didn't
> show signs of anger, but as a pretend guide dog she was obnoxiously sniffy
> all the way back, waiting for me to really put my all into yanking her out
> of the bushes.  Now that I think about it, that aspect of the walk reminds
> me a whole lot of a real guide dog I know and hang out with these days, at
> least when she was a pup.  With pretty much the same results.  I just
> refused to strain my delicate little self to yank and haul on her,
> instead to out-stubborn the little monster until she decided isn't wasn't
> worthwhile to argue anymore and that we might as well be on our way.
> I got a Halti, so I could gently tug her nose away from the object to
> she wished to glue it.  That's just what works for me.

> So, I suppose if the matter comes up again in the future, when I will be
> more picky stubborn and have less wish to use my frail and delicate body
> do battle with a dog over a bush, I will have to prepare in advance for a
> more effective way to communicate that to the interviewer than waiting
> she/he is sniffing in the bushes pretending to be a guide dog.  /smile/

> Tami Smith-Kinney

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of d m gina
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:44 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

> Do you have to correct hard with your dog, or does verbal correction help
> him.
> Only from time to time do I need to correct hard, if he is interested
> in another dog.
> If he has his manners on, then I can verble correct.

> Original message:
>> Hello, I was told that I didn't know how to leash correct and that was
>> at the home interview after the walk. I wouldn't have known how to
>> leash correct because I had never had a dog before. How much sense does
>> that make? I found out later that an issue had to do with my weight and
>> they felt that I didn't walk enough so needed to build up my endurance.
>> I decided that I wasn't sure what reason they would come up with next
>> so decided to try somewhere else and was given a chande.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 4:27 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,        the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

>> Lyn,

>> Yeah.  Out here on the west coast, I find it easy to get a view of some
>> GDB's stuff because they're so local.  Especially since I live so near
>> Boring campus.  So I get all sorts of myths and legends along with real
>> anecdotes and correct information from puppy raisers, consumers, and even
>> occasional staff and trainers.  That's if they don't find out I'm a
> dreaded
>> owner-trainer before they make the mistake of talking to me.  /lol/  At
>> which point they stop and walk away or tell me just what a horrible thing
> it
>> is that I am doing/have done and then stalk away.  Probalby to give their
>> own trainees a bath in case they picked up owner-trainer cooties from
> Mitzi
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> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
>   FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future

skype: dmgina23
  FB: dmgina
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future

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