[nagdu] shock collars used on service dogs

Thu Mar 3 01:05:03 UTC 2011

Has anyone else besides me conjured up what it might look like to see the 
seemingly mild mannered fellow, Marion, licking batteries and zinging 
himself with a shock collar? We're just the cozy family, aren't we, guys. 
LOL! ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] shock collars used on service dogs

> Oh yeah, Marion about the electric fences and the hidden fences.
>
> My sister has an electric fence around her horse corral - it freaked out 
> one of her dogs when it touched the fence!  But that dog never touched it 
> again!
>
> One of the things I don't like about the hidden fence is that it may keep 
> your dog in but it won't keep other dogs out!  I read a horrible story 
> about a dog who was confined in its yard with this device and another dog 
> came along and went into the yard and it attacked the resident dog almost 
> killing the dog. I prefer the regular fences and having an electric wire 
> running around it as well - keeps your dog in and other dogs out.
>
> Around here, people have "Coyote rollers" that are placed along the top of 
> a fence.  If a coyote tried to get into the yard, the roller prevents it 
> from getting a grip on the fence to launch itself inside with your 
> livestock or dogs.  I hear it works pretty well.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] shock collars used on service dogs
>
>
>> Lyn,
>>    I have a friend with a very large piece of property and three dogs. He 
>> uses an invisible fence. It is my understanding that the shock the dog 
>> gets is not very intense; sort of like touching your tongue to a 9-volt 
>> battery. Now, I must admit I am not a masochist but I touch my tongue to 
>> 9-volt batteries quite regularly to check their charge for my microphone. 
>> It doesn't hurt but I don't leave it there for much longer than 1/2 
>> second. I suppose the dog wouldn't let the shock continue very long! The 
>> collar of the invisible fence also gives off a beeping sound when the dog 
>> approaches the perimeter and learns that the next thing after the beep is 
>> the shock.
>>    Now, I once had a very large German Shepherd that would climb my fence 
>> and nothing we did would keep him in. Until, that is, we installed an 
>> electric fence. The first time he touched the wire, he yelped. But he 
>> never climbed the fence again! I touched the wire and got a jolt myself 
>> just to see what the dog would experience. I never tried it again, 
>> either!
>>    This dog would also run back and forth along a portion of the fence 
>> line with the neighbors dog. this created a rut about 10 feet long, three 
>> feet wide and two feet deep. I took a wire that was not electrified and 
>> strung it between two chairs. The dog looked at it and I could see it in 
>> his eyes! "No way, Jose!"I filled in the rut and never worried about it 
>> again!
>>    My point is that I don't think shock collars are inhumane when used 
>> correctly. Furthermore, I am of the opinion that service animal users 
>> should have the right to own their dogs and not be subject to arbitrary 
>> rules of how a program believes a dog should be treated. This is not to 
>> say that I believe one has the right to treat their dog inhumanely or 
>> otherwise abuse or neglect the dog. At the same time, I do not feel a 
>> training program should be able to dictate what type of food a dog eats, 
>> should expect a consumer to allow them unfettered access to their dog, 
>> require the consumer to purchase insurance, and require them to send them 
>> annual health records. All of these requirements open the door to 
>> consumers being harrassed, intimidated, and otherwise treated custodially 
>> or paternalistically. Such treatment is not in the best interest of the 
>> consumer nor is it in the best interest of the training program. If a 
>> training program wants to ensure the teams they train are doing well, 
>> they must treat the consumer as the adults they are. If a program has the 
>> right to repossess a dog, consumers will be hesitant to advise them of 
>> problems they are having for fear they will have their dogs taken from 
>> them.
>>    If a program feels as if the dog is being mistreated through abuse or 
>> neglect, there are laws in place in every jurisdiction to ensure this 
>> does not happen and with rules of due process to protect the consumer 
>> from arbitrary interference. If CCI were to have contacted animal control 
>> authorities about the use of the shock collar, they would most likely 
>> have investigated it and found there was no abuse. On the other hand, CCI 
>> made a decision and are not bound by rules of due process. I don't know 
>> all of the facts, but the real abuse here seems to be perpetrated by CCI 
>> against this consumer.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 1:54 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] shock collars used on service dogs
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, these collars come in several types.  There's one that works with 
>>> an electric "hidden" fence.  A wire is embedded in the ground aroound 
>>> the perimeter of your yard.  A collar is on the dog with a part that has 
>>> a couple of blunt prongs that rest against the dog's throat. When the 
>>> dog passes over the embedded wire, it gets a shock and learns to avoid 
>>> going over that area.  Nasty.
>>>
>>> The one the CCI grad used is another kind that looks similar to the 
>>> fence one - with the same type of prongs.  The owner holds a little 
>>> device that remotely sends a shock to the dog when it doesn't obey a 
>>> command or barks. Nasty!  I see these things for sale in all the dog 
>>> supply catalogs and I wouldn't use these.  I'll bet alot of dogs get 
>>> freaked out by these as people can just buy these things and not have a 
>>> clue as to what these things can do to a dog emotionally.  Cruelty.
>>>
>>> I've seen CCI dogs and I don't think they condone the use of these 
>>> devices at all.  This spring - usually the first or second Saturday in 
>>> April - at their Woofstock, I'll ask about this.  Our dog food man 
>>> usually has a booth there and I'll find out when this event is so we can 
>>> go.  I've gone to this event twice.  There are TONS of service dogs and 
>>> some pet dogs as well.  Dog distraction city! LOL! Great practice for 
>>> the dogs and fun for us.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Appeal denied,service dog will not be returned to 
>>> Utah man
>>>
>>>
>>>> Shock collar? Just the thought shocks me. I'm troubled about using 
>>>> Bernie's prong collar, yet I do, but, to use a shock collar? My dog 
>>>> would crumble.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 12:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Appeal denied,service dog will not be returned to 
>>>> Utah man
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Quite interesting article and the reader responses.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is another thing to show that ownership needs to be given to the 
>>>>> disabled person. There are ways to take dogs away from real abuse or 
>>>>> neglect situations.  Glad I own Landon!
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe CCI has some points as well. Because of the very long waiting 
>>>>> list, people receiving service dogs really need to be using the dog as 
>>>>> trained. Tough call. Shock collars????  I would think these would 
>>>>> create a problem in a sensitive dog.  I don't know of any service or 
>>>>> guide program that condones them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Appeal denied, service dog will not be returned to 
>>>>> Utah man
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Appeal denied, service dog will not be returned to Utah man
>>>>>> Published: Friday, Feb. 25, 2011 4:16 p.m. MST
>>>>>> By Viviane Vo-Duc, Deseret News
>>>>>> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705367506/Appeal-denied-servic
>>>>>> e-dog-will-not-be-returned-to-Utah-man.html
>>>>>> 16 comments     PRINT | FONT + -  SALT LAKE CITY - A man who had
>>>>>> his companion dog taken away will not be getting him back any
>>>>>> time soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Gael Yonnet's service dog Elon was taken away a month ago by
>>>>>> Canine Companions for Independence - the organization that
>>>>>> partnered him with the yellow Labrador retriever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the time, the organization said Yonnet's lifestyle and job
>>>>>> were endangering the dog because he didn't keep Elon on a leash,
>>>>>> especially on trips to the mountains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gael Yonnet, Family photo
>>>>>> Dr. Gael Yonnet, seen with his service dog, Elon, in December of
>>>>>> 2009, was paralyzed in a snowboarding accident in 2006. In 2009,
>>>>>> he received a service dog from Canine Companions for
>>>>>> Independence. The organization recently took the dog away from
>>>>>> Yonnet.
>>>>>>>From the archive
>>>>>> .Man's companion dog taken away in Utah; organization said dog in
>>>>>> danger - Feb. 4, 2011
>>>>>> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705365793/Mans-companion-dog-t
>>>>>> aken-away-in-Utah-organization-said-dog-in-danger.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yonnet said he understood their concern, especially after hearing
>>>>>> the dog was not on a leash at all times. But he claims Elon was
>>>>>> never in danger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He submitted an appeal, which included an iPetition with more
>>>>>> than 5,000 Utahns supporting the dog's return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a letter sent to Yonnet, Corey Hudson, CEO of CCI, said after
>>>>>> reviewing the details of the case the staff had good reason to
>>>>>> believe Elon's safety was in jeopardy and to take the dog back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "You repeatedly allowed Elon to be off lead in unenclosed and
>>>>>> urban environments, which is a serious safety concern for CCI."
>>>>>> Hudson said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He also said Yonnet was very confrontational and, at one time,
>>>>>> had a electronic collar on Elon, which was a serious breach of
>>>>>> CCI's standards for treatment of its dogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yonnet can appeal the decision to the national board of Canine
>>>>>> Companions for Independence, which he plans to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elon is currently being taken care of by a foster family, which
>>>>>> Yonnet says doesn't make sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He doesn't need a loving foster home," he said. "What he needs
>>>>>> is his loving home, his own family, which is me."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In March of 2006, Yonnet had a snowboarding accident, which left
>>>>>> him paralyzed from the waist down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said Elon was trained to assist him with tasks, such as
>>>>>> switching lights on and off, retrieving objects from the floor
>>>>>> and opening doors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While he has been offered another service dog from a different
>>>>>> organization, Yonnet says he just wants his "baby" back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-mail: vvo-duc at ksl.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> COMMENTS (17)
>>>>>> lost in DC | 4:05 p.m. Feb. 25, 2011
>>>>>> West Jordan, UT
>>>>>> too bad the dog is valued more than the person
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 5 Ute Fan In Utah | 4:34 p.m. Feb. 25,
>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>> West Jordan, UT
>>>>>> The man breached the contract he had agreed to with the company.
>>>>>> I don't blame them for taking Elon, I would have sooner if I had
>>>>>> invested so much money into a dog. They make it pretty clear that
>>>>>> the dog is not yours when they lend it to you.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 5 Sarah B | 4:50 p.m. Feb. 25, 2011
>>>>>> SLC, UT
>>>>>> I agree with Ute Fan. This is a highly educated adult who is
>>>>>> fully capable of understanding and following the rules. It takes
>>>>>> alot to train these dogs and there is a great need. If he can't
>>>>>> play by the rules, then he doesn't get to play. The fact that he
>>>>>> abused the dog by using a shock collar is grounds enough to take
>>>>>> the dog away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have much more sympathy if it was someone who was also
>>>>>> mentally impaired. Rebellion gets no sympathy from me. He made
>>>>>> his choices, despite warnings and now he has to deal with the
>>>>>> consequences.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 4 Jim A | 5:09 p.m. Feb. 25, 2011
>>>>>> Porter Ranch, California
>>>>>> I have a conflicting opinion here. First, CCI doesn't charge for
>>>>>> their dogs so point 1 for CCI. Second, the use of a shock collar
>>>>>> on a service Dog is reprehensible under any circumstance. If this
>>>>>> gentleman did in fact use a shock collar on this dog, that would
>>>>>> be grounds for removal in my book. As for the off-lead part, that
>>>>>> kind of depends. Sometimes a Service Dog's tasks require him to
>>>>>> be off lead for a short period of time, and in a city atmosphere
>>>>>> it could be very dangerous for the dog to be off lead. that said,
>>>>>> if he was letting the dog off-lead in the mountains when hiking,
>>>>>> as originally reported, I see less of an issue with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All in all, assuming the facts presented in this story are
>>>>>> accurate, I have to support CCI's decision. These animals cost
>>>>>> way to much to train for someone to be mistreating it with a
>>>>>> shock collar or taking unnecessary risks it in a city
>>>>>> environment.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 3 UU Fan | 5:25 p.m. Feb. 25, 2011
>>>>>> Salt Lake City, UT
>>>>>> I agree with Sarah. Dr Y wants his "baby" back but takes no
>>>>>> responsibility for the fact that he is the reason that the dog
>>>>>> was taken away despite repeated warnings. Off leash, shock
>>>>>> collars, I'm appalled. I'm glad the organization is able to
>>>>>> monitor the health and safety of their graduate teams and proceed
>>>>>> to do the right thing.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 4 Beth38 | 7:05 p.m. Feb. 25, 2011
>>>>>> Brockton, MA
>>>>>> I am so glad that CCI cares enough about their dogs to remove
>>>>>> Elon from such an irresponsible and vindictive man. He learned
>>>>>> the rules during his two weeks at training to get the dog. He
>>>>>> KNEW that the dog would remain CCI's dog, for reasons exactly
>>>>>> like this one. He SIGNED a contract stating that he agreed with
>>>>>> everything set forth in training, and with the understanding that
>>>>>> they maintain ownership. Instead of working with the school when
>>>>>> given opportunities, he CHOSE to ignore them and yet he cried
>>>>>> foul when the dog was removed. Instead of handling this in a
>>>>>> mature manner privately with the organization, he has chosen to
>>>>>> lie to the general public about the situation on his numerous
>>>>>> webpages as well as attempt. Anyone who wants to read the truth
>>>>>> can visit CCI's website. And to those of you who humanize dog's
>>>>>> emotions and think that poor Elon must be so sad: dogs don't
>>>>>> think like we do. They don't mourn people. They don't look back.
>>>>>> Think about it. Do you think Elon mourned his puppy raiser when
>>>>>> the "good" doctor got him? Um. No.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 4 DisabilityAdvocate | 8:22 p.m. Feb.
>>>>>> 25, 2011
>>>>>> Alexandria, VA
>>>>>> Regarding "Anyone who wants to read the truth can visit CCI's
>>>>>> website", would you go to one half of a dispute to get unbiased
>>>>>> information?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the arguments regarding the contract, it does not state
>>>>>> that the dog has to be on leash at all times. It does say that
>>>>>> local leash and licensing laws need to be followed, and they
>>>>>> were. Further, the ADA provides for service dogs being off leash
>>>>>> but under voice control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Yonnet is an inspiration to many disabled people. To take
>>>>>> away a paraplegic's dog because he was off leash on rural
>>>>>> mountain trails and in the hospital is sad. To further show
>>>>>> pictures on your website (as CCI has done) of other dogs off
>>>>>> leash in various environments and in another hospital makes this
>>>>>> even more concerning. How is Dr. Yonnet's hospital and recreation
>>>>>> more dangerous than that of other CCI graduates?
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 7 Krizzle | 12:09 a.m. Feb. 26, 2011
>>>>>> Sandy, UT
>>>>>> To UoU Fan: Gael did in fact take responsiblity that a certain
>>>>>> times he did not have Elon leashed (of course many of those times
>>>>>> were due to safety reasons). Cesar Millan has in the past
>>>>>> supported the use of shock collars. They are a great use for
>>>>>> obedience training if used properly. And to Beth who thinks
>>>>>> everyone is consumed at humanizing Elon by associating them with
>>>>>> human emotions: animals do mourn. Elon knows he's not with Gael.
>>>>>> He's not receiving the same love and devotion that Gael gave him.
>>>>>> Elon was never in trouble.
>>>>>> Too many times I see animals out there being abused, neglected,
>>>>>> taken advantage of. And Gael who treats this dog with the utmost
>>>>>> respect gets him ripped out of his arms. CCI has done good for
>>>>>> many people but this one situation they've handled horribly.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 ADA prevails | 12:54 a.m. Feb. 26,
>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>> Eastport, MD
>>>>>> (1) There are numerous pictures on CCI's own web site and CCI's
>>>>>> own videos that show dogs leash free outside; some of which are
>>>>>> clearly in public areas. There are clearly two standards: one for
>>>>>> CCI and one for Dr. Yonnet. This does bring to question CCI's
>>>>>> motives or prejudice, perhaps?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (2) CCI's leash requirements are a violationws of the Americans
>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (ADA), which provides latitude on leash
>>>>>> requirements for persons in wheelchairs. And, ADA prevails unless
>>>>>> a state law or contract provides more freedom for the person in
>>>>>> the wheelchair...not the dog. The law protects the disabled
>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (3) I could not, in good conscience, recommend that anyone get a
>>>>>> dog from CCI given the way they have treated Dr. Yonnet. It was
>>>>>> obvious in the pictures that Elon was very happy with Gael. It
>>>>>> was also obvious how much Gael loved Elon. To break these two up
>>>>>> has now devastated both Gael and Elon. It is absolutely cold and
>>>>>> heartless the way this was handled. I would never suppport nor
>>>>>> encourage supporting CCI given this case. CCI has no heart if it
>>>>>> can do this.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 Beth38 | 12:55 a.m. Feb. 26, 2011
>>>>>> Brockton, MA
>>>>>> Being an inspiration to disabled people has nothing to do with
>>>>>> this matter. And honestly, I am a disabled person and he sickens
>>>>>> me with the poor way he has chosen to deal with this issue. The
>>>>>> dog is not his and never was. He had numerous opportunities to
>>>>>> work with the school to take care of safety issues and he didn't.
>>>>>> He didn't follow what he was told to do by the school that loaned
>>>>>> him this dog.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 2 Sharon Kenzer | 1:37 a.m. Feb. 26,
>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>> Eastport, MD
>>>>>> Dr. Yonnet and Elon were a family and an inspiration to so many
>>>>>> people, including the veterans that were patients of Dr. Yonnet.
>>>>>> While dealing with their own disabilities, it was extremely
>>>>>> inspiring to see the full life that Gael was living with Elon.
>>>>>> Elon inspired Gael to be active again, which gave hope to so many
>>>>>> patients dealing with their own disabilities. Elon gave such
>>>>>> comfort to many people, including patients, but mostly to Elon.
>>>>>> To think that CCI would repo this dog for a fear of what could
>>>>>> happen is tragic. Would one keep a child on a leash? When one
>>>>>> fully reads Dr. Yonnet's explanation of what transpired, which
>>>>>> has been consistent, there is no doubt he exercised good judgment
>>>>>> for Elon's safety at all times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last, comments by CCI supporters repeatedly refer to their leash
>>>>>> requirements, however, there are CCI videos and CCI pictures
>>>>>> where dogs are leash free in public areas. The more I read about
>>>>>> this, the greater the injustice perpetrated on Gael and Elon. I
>>>>>> don't believe for a minute that Elon isn't suffering the loss of
>>>>>> Gael. CCI should return Elon.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 Love Dogs | 1:50 a.m. Feb. 26, 2011
>>>>>> Tarzana, CA
>>>>>> I applaud Canine Companions for Independance (CCI) for their
>>>>>> decision to remove Elon from Gael. Tbe public statement from CCI
>>>>>> can be read on their website on this issue....and for sure, it
>>>>>> appears that they do not make a decision like this on a whim,
>>>>>> only one in 500 dogs partnered are taken back. It is sad to learn
>>>>>> that Gael chose to go public in such a dishonest and arrogant
>>>>>> way, and now loose his dog. In my heart I was praying that he
>>>>>> would have the sense to listen and talk to the amazing folks who
>>>>>> trained Elon, and appreciate the tremendous gift he was given.
>>>>>> His refusal to respect this highly trained dog after he received
>>>>>> it and his continued arrogant public threats lead me to applaud
>>>>>> CCI for their final decision. Thankful for what this amazing
>>>>>> non-profit does to help so many disabled Americans....
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 1 Ann Mc Dowell | 2:10 a.m. Feb. 26,
>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>> New York, NY
>>>>>> Gael and Elon were an inspiration to so many of the patients in
>>>>>> the hospital, particularly the veterans with disabilties and
>>>>>> traumatic brain injuries who were Gael's patients. They gave so
>>>>>> many people hope that they could live fully active lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CCI's Form 990, as filed with the IRS for 2009, Schedule O
>>>>>> Supplemental Information (page 34) stated:
>>>>>> "TAsks performed by instructors at follow-up visitation include:
>>>>>> 2) Correction of any problems that may exist;
>>>>>> 5) Making certain that the dog is doing the commands initially
>>>>>> taught, and that they are still needed; and
>>>>>> 6) Beginning the process of teaching new commands, if deemed
>>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gael requested additional training from Simi in late December of
>>>>>> 2010. When a date was set for 1/29/10, Gael was looking forward
>>>>>> to meeting with Simi as he was told it was to help with items 2,
>>>>>> 5, 6 above. In fact, Gael took the day off from meeting with his
>>>>>> patients in order to train with Elon. Instead, Simi offered no
>>>>>> training or education and quickly informed Gael that they were
>>>>>> there to take Elon. That's the last time Gael saw Elon; tragic
>>>>>> for both Gael and Elon.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 SanB | 4:36 a.m. Feb. 26, 2011
>>>>>> Jupiter, FL
>>>>>> I have been following this story closely, and still feel that CCI
>>>>>> and Dr. Yonnet can resolves the issues at hand. Through all of
>>>>>> the anger and emotion (and we ALL have acted out in both) the
>>>>>> bottom line is, CCI raised an awesome companion dog, Dr. Yonnet
>>>>>> has bonded with Elon, loves him dearly, and was not abusing the
>>>>>> dog. I have read in earlier posts, Dr. Yonnet has set out to
>>>>>> acquire a new leash (made specifically for people in wheelchairs
>>>>>> that are active) that will allow him to take Elon on his mountain
>>>>>> trips, which will take care of the safety concerns as expressed
>>>>>> by CCI. I have to agree with DisabilityAdvocate above, I have
>>>>>> browsed CCI's website, and have seen the same pictures with other
>>>>>> dogs off leash, so are those dogs getting ready to be repo'd as
>>>>>> well? We have all experienced loss, and death, and have probably
>>>>>> even uttered the words "I'd do anything to get them back".
>>>>>> Fortunately, in this case, there is still time to get them back,
>>>>>> with a very clear mutual understanding of what is expected. Just
>>>>>> Love!
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 Angelo John Stevens | 6:51 a.m. Feb.
>>>>>> 26, 2011
>>>>>> Fort Belvoir, VA
>>>>>> I am going to be polite, after fighting a school system in VA who
>>>>>> seems to feel they can have a policy that Names ADI, an affiliate
>>>>>> of CCI as the sole God to all Dog training and certifications, I
>>>>>> have to say I see something fishy with CCI and ADI, more so when
>>>>>> an agency feels even with all the good they do, that they are
>>>>>> above the law.
>>>>>> They have rules which are not enforced across the board, and seem
>>>>>> to pick and choose who they enforce them on, based on how much
>>>>>> aide and or help that person can give to their fund rasing
>>>>>> efforts, their 50,000 dollar dogs does not mean their better dogs
>>>>>> then a 20,000 dog, plain and simple.
>>>>>> Servioce Dogs should be controllable on and off a leash, because
>>>>>> facts and nature dictate there will be places and times these
>>>>>> dogs need to be off leash in order to perform their functions.
>>>>>> ADA and DOJ have already stated they agree leashs are not
>>>>>> required for certain instances where it is unsafe to use a leash,
>>>>>> however if dogs can be controlled either with voice, or hand.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 Angelo John Stevens | 7:06 a.m. Feb.
>>>>>> 26, 2011
>>>>>> Fort Belvoir, VA
>>>>>> I am still curious why CCI retains owner ship of the dog yet
>>>>>> claims they give dogs for free, giving implies you no longer own
>>>>>> that which is given, should not the term instead be, We loan
>>>>>> service dogs to persons, but at any time may remove that dog if
>>>>>> we CCI feel you are too dangerous for that loaned dog to be in,
>>>>>> and then we will lie to you to meet at a mall, in order to train
>>>>>> you and your dog, but instead will take the dog from you, and not
>>>>>> ensure you the disabled person will get home safely, and threaten
>>>>>> you with the police as well, lets not also forget these are the
>>>>>> same people that want to work with wounded warriors and veterans,
>>>>>> our suicide rate is high enough in the military we do not need
>>>>>> CCI re-poing dogs from them to add fuel to that fire.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0 1000observer | 9:59 a.m. Feb. 26,
>>>>>> 2011
>>>>>> Alexandria, Va
>>>>>> First, CCI makes perfectly clear that they retain ownership of
>>>>>> their dogs. It is in every agreement that every graduate,
>>>>>> including the person in question, signs before accepting a CCI
>>>>>> dog. If you don't like it, don't accept a CCI dog. There are many
>>>>>> people on CCI waiting lists willing to accept the terms CCI has,
>>>>>> and if you accept a CCI dog, and not the terms CCI has, you are
>>>>>> taking that dog away from someone else who might have benefited
>>>>>> from a CCI dog. Another SLC TV site has a story posted and on it
>>>>>> is a link to the letter from CCI to Dr. Yonnet. After reading
>>>>>> this letter, any sympathy I had for the doctor on this issue has
>>>>>> disappeared. I leave it to everyone to read the letter, but it
>>>>>> seems from the letter that CCI did everything it could to solve
>>>>>> the issue at hand, and it is not just about leash and off leash
>>>>>> rules. Shame that Dr. Yonnet and his supporters prefer to attack
>>>>>> CCI than work with them to find a solution.
>>>>>> Recommend Recommendations: 0
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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