[nagdu] Service Dog Removal

Thu Nov 10 20:52:50 UTC 2011

Of course its never our dogs fault!  They always look innocent even if they 
did snag that treat or sniff that woman in front of us!  I explain both 
sides in conversation because if the dog is acting up or dirty it is because 
of the owner not the dog and it sort of embarrasses me when I come in and 
get a refference to something like that!  Because of course if you have seen 
one service dog, you've seen em all!  And the first one always makes the 
biggest impression!  Although like me, people probably think that your dog 
can't be a service dog because its too foofy!  They always wonder what Holly 
is and comment that they've never seen a dog quite like her!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Dog Removal


> Larry,
>
> I like how you describe your observations and approach.
>
> When I'm talking to business owners, either because they are asking 
> general questions outside of the business environment in some social 
> setting or in the course of addressing questions about my own access, I do 
> like to include the balancing information about their rights and recourse 
> against abuse of the ADA by service dog users who don't keep their dogs 
> clean and keep it under control. Well, mostly I do that by talking of my 
> responsibilities when I bring my own service dog into their establishment.
>
> I tend to use my dog for an example, as in, If my dog..." This makes 
> things light hearted, because my dog grins at them while I talk, wooing 
> them with her adorability and the absolute innocence of one who could 
> never possibly do anything wrong... /lol/ I figure the bleeping poodle is 
> a natural born conversation piece anyway, so why not use her as a teaching 
> tool?
>
> So, if I bring my dog into your store with fleas jumping all over the 
> place and dirt falling off The "..." is where I pause to let them get the 
> cooing and googley eyes out of their system and declare that Mitzi could 
> *never* be a dirty dog, and she wouldn't have fleas, oh no, she wouldn't. 
> Mitzi grins from ear to ear; her tail changes weather patterns over a 
> 5-state area. /lol/
>
> Also, if, say, Mitzi here (oh, she would never!)...
>
> Yes, I will continue patiently when the love making is having a cool down 
> period and I'm wondering if I should give the two of them more privacy --  
> or suggest theyr ent a room -- you do have the right to throw us out if my 
> dog is dirty or causing trouble and I'm not keeping her under control. She 
> can make mistakes but...
>
> No, Mitzi could never make a mistake she is just too adorable for 
> that/lol/ And she just takes such good care of mer mommy... No /lol/!
>
> Come to think of it, by that point we are not in danger of being denied 
> access even if we started out that way. I may find myself with a guide dog 
> who was just given her own business because she is just that cute, but... 
> No, she cannot come into the kitchen to help you cook. /lol/ Okay, no one 
> has ever said that, but there was one love fest that I was beginning to 
> worry about on that score. The beauty of these phases where I'm more 
> limited to my usual haunts in my regular stomping ground is that everybody 
> is trained by now so I can just go out for a nice lunch and tuck my dog 
> under the table so we can eat in peace. /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 11/10/2011 05:02 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>> I believe that there only a few conditions where a store owner can 
>> legally ask a dog team to leave the location.  None of these did I see at 
>> State Convention.  I have seen the first from someone I knew though. 
>> That is the dog relieving itself in the store.  I have seen many folks 
>> who seem too busy to relieve there dogs and take them into a business and 
>> wonder why they left a present or two.  The one guy in question I knew 
>> was guilty of not relieving his dog often enough and when he relieved 
>> himself in the store, he refused to accknowledge that his dog did it.  He 
>> argued with the manager and his wife cleaned it up.  Accidents do happen 
>> but if the owner refuses to take responsibility well they should be asked 
>> to leave.  Also, if the dog is obviously not under control.  Excessive 
>> barking, putting there noses into displays, snatching things off of 
>> shelves and wandering around by themselves come to mind.  Pretty much the 
>> same reasons I would remove my kids from a business as we
> ll.  My dog has tried to sniff those loaves of bread at Krogers they put 
> nice and low by the counter.  I always correct her and divert her 
> attention when she does that.  I would be worried she might sneak a bite 
> while I was buying something so she doesn't even get to think about it! 
> Finally, some owners don't remember that there dog needs to be bathed 
> periodically.  The same person who allowed his dog to dump in the store 
> usually forgot to do this and I could tell they were coming by the strong 
> dog odor that preceeded them!  In none of the cases I have looked at in 
> the last year, has any of these reasons been cited for removing dogs from 
> they're businesses!  The last, that guy in Kent County, was only 
> complaining about dog hair.  Well, people sometimes shed hair as well and 
> they don't get banned from places!  Sometimes people don't bathe iether 
> and are allowed to come in!  It amazes me on how lax businesses are on 
> that subject!  I've sat near some pretty ripe individualss wh
> o would have put any dog to shame!  I have also seem folks get loud and 
> obnoxious!  Kids and parents screamming and dirty diapers nice and ripe! 
> And those folks get to stay!  I have only seen 2 instances where I would 
> have kicked out a dog team.  The first, I have already described.  The 
> second was the same guy.  Whenever he took his dog into a pet store his 
> dog became uncontrollable!  The more his dog misbehaved, the more the guy 
> cussed and hollered!  Pretty soon, it always became a great big sceen!  I 
> have had stores tell me that they would never ask a service dog team to 
> leave.  I usually inform them that they do have the right under certain 
> circumstances such as those abov.  My point in metioning this is that 
> again, none of the cases I've seen recently meet the criteria here and of 
> course the security guard, the law office owner and the restraunt manager 
> had no cause to remove the dogs and owners!
>> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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