[nagdu] Stress Issues

Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Tue Sep 6 17:30:56 UTC 2011


Ann, 
This post is beautiful. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 3:41 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues

Hi, Steve, Lora, and Everybody,

Steve, the implied answer to your rhetorical question about the root of 
behavior problems in guide dogs is, "the handler."  However, I don't think 
this is necessarily a fair answer.  It could as well be "the breeding 
program" or "the puppy-raising program" or "genetics" or "the nature of 
dogs" or many other answers which I haven't thought of off the top of my 
head, that has caused the problems.

I think it is unfair to blame the handler for all behavior issues in guide 
dogs or in pet dogs for that matter.  Sometimes it truly is that a dog is 
not cut out to be a guide dog 24 hours per day, that the only way that dog 
made it through training was because it was only worked for an hour per day 
and was then put back in the kennels where there was no opportunity to 
counter surf, chew up everything in the bathroom wastepaper baskets, eat the 
kids toys and everyone's clothes and shoes, steal a whole roast or a stick 
of butter off the dining room table, and dash out the door any time he isn't 
tied down.  The trainers/instructors never see these behaviors because they 
don't live with the dogs.  And if a dog comes to the blind handler with 
these behaviors established in his history, even if the handler follows to 
the letter the instructions of the program as to how to gradually allow the 
dog more freedom in the house and religiously performs obedience exercises 
daily and gives the dog opportunities to play and release stress, etc., the 
unwanted behaviors will most likely appear as soon as opportunity presents 
itself and will be extremely difficult to change because they are so 
reinforcing to the dog.

In my own case, I had had several pet dogs which I had raised from puppies 
before I got my first guide dog.  My pets were always very well-behaved in 
the house as well as in public, and had many admirers who expressed their 
willingness to offer my dogs a home if a situation ever occured which 
prevented me from keeping them.  I also competed in obedience with several 
of my pet dogs, so I know something of formal obedience as well as just good 
manners in dogs.

My first guide was not only a fine working guide but also had the house 
manners I expected.  He could be left off-leash in the house without fear 
that he would eat the kids' toys or food from the counters, or, after a 
little training, even the food in the pet dog's bowl.  He waited for 
permission to go through the door and had a reliable recall.  And I didn't 
have to go through any herculean efforts to achieve this result.  That dog 
performed his guide tasks admirably and lived as a beloved member of my 
family for 9 years, until his death.  At the time, I didn't consider any of 
this extraordinary.  I thought it was just what was to be expected of a 
highly trained and specially bred guide dog.

My next 2 guide dogs were completely different.  They had horrible house 
manners and terrible prey drive.  They showed lots of stress symptoms, such 
as losing hair, chewing on their legs and feet, having relieving accidents 
indoors, having feeding problems, and losing weight.  Dealing with these two 
dogs and trying to salvage the partnerships with each of them was 
emotionally devastating as well as physically exhausting to me.  If I hadn't 
had the background with my pet dogs and my first guide dog that I had, I 
surely would have been convinced that I was simply a poor handler who 
couldn't maintain the precious investment of time and effort that had gone 
into producing these special dogs.  And the often stated opinion expressed 
by long-time dog handlers on lists such as this one, that problems in guide 
dogs after placement were almost invariably due to lax discipline on the 
part of the blind handler, certainly did not help or support me in my time 
of struggle.

In the end, I had to conclude that further efforts to keep working with 
those dogs were not going to succeed, and that their return to the school 
was the only viable solution.  Neither of those dogs was reissued to another 
blind handler, although both were certainly young enough to make this the 
logical course of action, if it had been a "mismatch" or poor choice of 
handler which had caused the problems with these dogs.

In other words, my considered opinion is that the guide dog training 
programs are not perfect.  They do occasionally put out dogs which are not 
temperamentally suited to be guides and dogs which cannot take the stress of 
full-time guide work, as opposed to being a dog in training.  From what Lora 
has said, it sounds as if she has sought and followed the advice of her 
training program on how to deal with the issues that have come up with her 
dog.  It sounds as if she has made sincere efforts to retrain the dog and to 
manage the undesirable behaviors.  I would not want Lora to feel that she is 
somehow to blame for her dog's poor house manners or dangerous behaviors, 
either because she was not rigorous enough in her discipline or because she 
was too strict and controlling of her dog's every move.

Certainly, the types and amounts of unwanted behavior that each of us is 
willing or able to live with in our animal companions differs, and may 
differ with our living arrangements and family circumstances as well as 
other lifestyle variables.  But I don't think there is anything wrong with 
having a bottom line when it comes to behavior, either in the home or in 
public, either guide work behaviors or companion or social  behaviors.

Lora wrote asking for ways that she might use to relieve stress in her dog. 
How about we just answer her question without adding to both her own stress 
and that of the dog?

In that vain, Lora, have you found any safe fenced place, such as a tennis 
court or fenced yard, where you can play supervised games with your dog such 
as tug-o-war or fetching games, where there are not too many things that he 
can get in trouble with?  When he is indoors, can you keep him on leash so 
that he goes with you wherever you move rather than putting him on a tie 
where he has to stay in one place?  Have you tried giving him his food in 
one of the puzzle toys where he has to work to get the food out a piece at a 
time?  Have you used T-Touch or massage with him for relaxation?  Have you 
played little training games with him (on leash) where you have someone drop 
a piece of food (or paper) or something that is not too attractive to him 
and then reward him instantly with a higher value treat for not diving for 
the dropped item immediately?  Does he have favorite chew toys available to 
him frequently?  Does he know explicitly which objects are his own to do 
what he wants with and which objects are not his and are entirely off 
limits?  Has he been checked out by a vet for medical reasons for his stress 
level or for causes of some of his obsessive behaviors?

I hope you will be able to find ways to help your dog relax while at the 
same time helping him behave in acceptable ways so that you can all live 
together comfortably.  And, if nothing works and you find that you simply 
cannot continue to live and work with this dog for your own peace of mind 
and for his safety, then don't think it is your fault in any way.  You have 
given it a good try, and that is all that we can do.  If the dog is not cut 
out for the job, then he will never be happy in that life.  Hopefully, if it 
comes to that decision, there is a wonderful dog out there just waiting to 
be your guide and companion, and there is a wonderful family somewhere who 
would be delighted to have your dog as a pampered pet.

Best,
Ann

  ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues


>A good friend of mine pointed out to me after I made a comment how all of 
>my
> dogs had similar habits.  They simply said, in a question, and what is the
> common denominator?  This made me think very closely to what I was doing
> right and those things I let slide.  I also know of others who have had a
> number of dogs in a short period of time, and I always simply ask this
> question.  So, what is the common denominator?
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 10:44 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>
> Wow! I don't think "I guess this dog just can't be an off leash dog" is
> really an acceptable answer. I have had a batch of dogs and several
> problems, but I never had one that had to always be tied, leashed, or
> crated. Cindy
>
> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Lora wrote:
>
>> My school gave me lots of methods that I tried to get this dog to
>> listen of leash and finally the school was like well I guess this dog
>> can't be an off leash dog.
>>
>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I can't remember if you have spoken to the school about this. You
> shouldn't
>>> have lots of off leash problems with him at this point. If it was stress
>>> though, wouldn't his guiding be affected, too? I don't really know. I 
>>> had
> a
>>> dog once that the vet said was stress drinking, but she was a good
> working
>>> dog. I hope someone can help you more than I can apparently help.
>>>
>>> CL
>>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had him for about a year. I know I have a very busy lifestyle.
>>>> His guide work is amazing and I like him as a dog. His off leash
>>>> issues are about the only issue. I've had previous dogs that have had
>>>> lots of problems.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I can't remember how long you have had this dog. Weren't you having
>>>>> trouble
>>>>> with him from the time you got him? I can't remember for sure. I can't
>>>>> remember where he came from either, though in the end that wouldn't
>>>>> matter.
>>>>> Why do you think he has so much stress in his life?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello List:
>>>>>> I know we've probably had this discussion before but I would
>>>>>> appreciate it if we could have it again. My dog is loosing a lot of
>>>>>> hair and I think it is due to stress since he is on a good diet. I
>>>>>> can't trust him off leash since he doesn't listen at all. I have 
>>>>>> tried
>>>>>> letting him play on a flexilead but he won't run around. I play with
>>>>>> him tug of war and other games like that but I don't think he's
>>>>>> getting enough stress out of his life. Do you have any suggestions?
>>>>>> Thank You.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lora
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Lora
>>
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>
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