[nagdu] Stress Issues

Tue Sep 6 17:45:34 UTC 2011

List
My life is very busy in the fact that I have classes and an
internship. I walk three to four miles a day. I go to class then I go
hang out at my church class studying on the days that I have an
internship I have the internship all day and then I go home and study
or maybe go to a church social activity. On the weekends I walk a few
miles to go grocery shopping and attend church.

On 9/6/11, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
> Ann,
> This post is beautiful. Thank you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ann Edie
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 3:41 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>
> Hi, Steve, Lora, and Everybody,
>
> Steve, the implied answer to your rhetorical question about the root of
> behavior problems in guide dogs is, "the handler."  However, I don't think
> this is necessarily a fair answer.  It could as well be "the breeding
> program" or "the puppy-raising program" or "genetics" or "the nature of
> dogs" or many other answers which I haven't thought of off the top of my
> head, that has caused the problems.
>
> I think it is unfair to blame the handler for all behavior issues in guide
> dogs or in pet dogs for that matter.  Sometimes it truly is that a dog is
> not cut out to be a guide dog 24 hours per day, that the only way that dog
> made it through training was because it was only worked for an hour per day
> and was then put back in the kennels where there was no opportunity to
> counter surf, chew up everything in the bathroom wastepaper baskets, eat the
> kids toys and everyone's clothes and shoes, steal a whole roast or a stick
> of butter off the dining room table, and dash out the door any time he isn't
> tied down.  The trainers/instructors never see these behaviors because they
> don't live with the dogs.  And if a dog comes to the blind handler with
> these behaviors established in his history, even if the handler follows to
> the letter the instructions of the program as to how to gradually allow the
> dog more freedom in the house and religiously performs obedience exercises
> daily and gives the dog opportunities to play and release stress, etc., the
> unwanted behaviors will most likely appear as soon as opportunity presents
> itself and will be extremely difficult to change because they are so
> reinforcing to the dog.
>
> In my own case, I had had several pet dogs which I had raised from puppies
> before I got my first guide dog.  My pets were always very well-behaved in
> the house as well as in public, and had many admirers who expressed their
> willingness to offer my dogs a home if a situation ever occured which
> prevented me from keeping them.  I also competed in obedience with several
> of my pet dogs, so I know something of formal obedience as well as just good
> manners in dogs.
>
> My first guide was not only a fine working guide but also had the house
> manners I expected.  He could be left off-leash in the house without fear
> that he would eat the kids' toys or food from the counters, or, after a
> little training, even the food in the pet dog's bowl.  He waited for
> permission to go through the door and had a reliable recall.  And I didn't
> have to go through any herculean efforts to achieve this result.  That dog
> performed his guide tasks admirably and lived as a beloved member of my
> family for 9 years, until his death.  At the time, I didn't consider any of
> this extraordinary.  I thought it was just what was to be expected of a
> highly trained and specially bred guide dog.
>
> My next 2 guide dogs were completely different.  They had horrible house
> manners and terrible prey drive.  They showed lots of stress symptoms, such
> as losing hair, chewing on their legs and feet, having relieving accidents
> indoors, having feeding problems, and losing weight.  Dealing with these two
> dogs and trying to salvage the partnerships with each of them was
> emotionally devastating as well as physically exhausting to me.  If I hadn't
> had the background with my pet dogs and my first guide dog that I had, I
> surely would have been convinced that I was simply a poor handler who
> couldn't maintain the precious investment of time and effort that had gone
> into producing these special dogs.  And the often stated opinion expressed
> by long-time dog handlers on lists such as this one, that problems in guide
> dogs after placement were almost invariably due to lax discipline on the
> part of the blind handler, certainly did not help or support me in my time
> of struggle.
>
> In the end, I had to conclude that further efforts to keep working with
> those dogs were not going to succeed, and that their return to the school
> was the only viable solution.  Neither of those dogs was reissued to another
> blind handler, although both were certainly young enough to make this the
> logical course of action, if it had been a "mismatch" or poor choice of
> handler which had caused the problems with these dogs.
>
> In other words, my considered opinion is that the guide dog training
> programs are not perfect.  They do occasionally put out dogs which are not
> temperamentally suited to be guides and dogs which cannot take the stress of
> full-time guide work, as opposed to being a dog in training.  From what Lora
> has said, it sounds as if she has sought and followed the advice of her
> training program on how to deal with the issues that have come up with her
> dog.  It sounds as if she has made sincere efforts to retrain the dog and to
> manage the undesirable behaviors.  I would not want Lora to feel that she is
> somehow to blame for her dog's poor house manners or dangerous behaviors,
> either because she was not rigorous enough in her discipline or because she
> was too strict and controlling of her dog's every move.
>
> Certainly, the types and amounts of unwanted behavior that each of us is
> willing or able to live with in our animal companions differs, and may
> differ with our living arrangements and family circumstances as well as
> other lifestyle variables.  But I don't think there is anything wrong with
> having a bottom line when it comes to behavior, either in the home or in
> public, either guide work behaviors or companion or social  behaviors.
>
> Lora wrote asking for ways that she might use to relieve stress in her dog.
> How about we just answer her question without adding to both her own stress
> and that of the dog?
>
> In that vain, Lora, have you found any safe fenced place, such as a tennis
> court or fenced yard, where you can play supervised games with your dog such
> as tug-o-war or fetching games, where there are not too many things that he
> can get in trouble with?  When he is indoors, can you keep him on leash so
> that he goes with you wherever you move rather than putting him on a tie
> where he has to stay in one place?  Have you tried giving him his food in
> one of the puzzle toys where he has to work to get the food out a piece at a
> time?  Have you used T-Touch or massage with him for relaxation?  Have you
> played little training games with him (on leash) where you have someone drop
> a piece of food (or paper) or something that is not too attractive to him
> and then reward him instantly with a higher value treat for not diving for
> the dropped item immediately?  Does he have favorite chew toys available to
> him frequently?  Does he know explicitly which objects are his own to do
> what he wants with and which objects are not his and are entirely off
> limits?  Has he been checked out by a vet for medical reasons for his stress
> level or for causes of some of his obsessive behaviors?
>
> I hope you will be able to find ways to help your dog relax while at the
> same time helping him behave in acceptable ways so that you can all live
> together comfortably.  And, if nothing works and you find that you simply
> cannot continue to live and work with this dog for your own peace of mind
> and for his safety, then don't think it is your fault in any way.  You have
> given it a good try, and that is all that we can do.  If the dog is not cut
> out for the job, then he will never be happy in that life.  Hopefully, if it
> comes to that decision, there is a wonderful dog out there just waiting to
> be your guide and companion, and there is a wonderful family somewhere who
> would be delighted to have your dog as a pampered pet.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>
>
>>A good friend of mine pointed out to me after I made a comment how all of
>>my
>> dogs had similar habits.  They simply said, in a question, and what is the
>> common denominator?  This made me think very closely to what I was doing
>> right and those things I let slide.  I also know of others who have had a
>> number of dogs in a short period of time, and I always simply ask this
>> question.  So, what is the common denominator?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 10:44 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>>
>> Wow! I don't think "I guess this dog just can't be an off leash dog" is
>> really an acceptable answer. I have had a batch of dogs and several
>> problems, but I never had one that had to always be tied, leashed, or
>> crated. Cindy
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Lora wrote:
>>
>>> My school gave me lots of methods that I tried to get this dog to
>>> listen of leash and finally the school was like well I guess this dog
>>> can't be an off leash dog.
>>>
>>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I can't remember if you have spoken to the school about this. You
>> shouldn't
>>>> have lots of off leash problems with him at this point. If it was stress
>>>> though, wouldn't his guiding be affected, too? I don't really know. I
>>>> had
>> a
>>>> dog once that the vet said was stress drinking, but she was a good
>> working
>>>> dog. I hope someone can help you more than I can apparently help.
>>>>
>>>> CL
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had him for about a year. I know I have a very busy lifestyle.
>>>>> His guide work is amazing and I like him as a dog. His off leash
>>>>> issues are about the only issue. I've had previous dogs that have had
>>>>> lots of problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I can't remember how long you have had this dog. Weren't you having
>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>> with him from the time you got him? I can't remember for sure. I can't
>>>>>> remember where he came from either, though in the end that wouldn't
>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>> Why do you think he has so much stress in his life?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello List:
>>>>>>> I know we've probably had this discussion before but I would
>>>>>>> appreciate it if we could have it again. My dog is loosing a lot of
>>>>>>> hair and I think it is due to stress since he is on a good diet. I
>>>>>>> can't trust him off leash since he doesn't listen at all. I have
>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>> letting him play on a flexilead but he won't run around. I play with
>>>>>>> him tug of war and other games like that but I don't think he's
>>>>>>> getting enough stress out of his life. Do you have any suggestions?
>>>>>>> Thank You.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Lora
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Lora
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lora
>>>
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>
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-- 
Lora