[nagdu] How would you respond?

Tue Apr 24 14:30:29 UTC 2012

You know what? I fully disagree with you. You don't always know what is going to happen until you are in the middle of it. Things happen. I am unsubscribing from this list because I'm sick of the judgmental attitude here. I've exhibited it myself sometimes, and I don't like it in myself either. The only real reason I can see for staying here is that I can learn more about whasup at convention.

Cindy

On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:

> Yes, because the thing is that you are supposed to be able to control your dog!  You are supposed to do this under all circumstances.  Those whom have pet dogs that do this can be sued and have to pay fines or in some circumstances go to jail!  There is no excuse for letting your dog attack another dog!  If its the dog fault, the handler should know his-her dog well enough to keep it out of those situations!  If the dog was offleash, he gets what he gets!  If not black listed then certainly observed very carefuly when next going through a training program!  I know folks who have had guide dogs that value a little aggression.  I don't believe in any aggressive dog who's handler can't control it.  I'm suggesting that sence the dog and handler are both members of a team, they should know each other and how they will react!  A new team might get some leanency because they might not know each other well but otherwise.  This society puts down dogs who become aggressive to humans.  The assumption I am making is that both parties should have had control of there dogs and the one who was the attacker should have been controlled!  Nothing hard or complicated about that!
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" <mewhalen at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
> 
> 
>> Wow...this message sure is full of assumptions.  The person should be black listed because he or she received a dog which attacked another dog. I do not think dogs are taught aggression.  I think dogs will be dogs, and it is very unfortunate that this happened, but in no way, what-so-ever does that mean this handler should never have a guide again.  My first guide bit one of my pet dogs.  I should probably have never been given another dog, then, I suppose.  I must have taught her to bite.  Shame on me.
>> 
>> I am sorry this message comes off as rude, but I am really really tired of people assuming it is the person's fault.  We talk about wanting to be treated fairly and equally by guide dog training programs.  We say that we are adults and should be treated as such, and then, more than one person I have come across automatically blames the handler.  If I buy a new microwave, and I bring it home and plug it in and it doesn't work, did I do something wrong?  No, there was a problem with the manufacturing of the product.  If I bring a dog home, and that dog does not guide effectively, or she barks and/or growls at other dogs, that is not my fault, either. That does not mean I should not work with the dog to improve the problems if it seems they could be fixed, but the handler is not always responsible for what the dog does or does not know.  Please recall that before a dog is matched with a blind person, the dog has had a year and a half to two years growing and learning and having experiences we will never know about.  I am very disappointed in people who would not wish to be treated in exactly the way they are treating people who cannot defend themselves.
>> 
>> Meghan
>> On 4/24/2012 4:45 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>> Oh, thats bad!  Guides are deffinetely not supposed to do that!  I think both schools should be contacted and the case should be taken to court. I get the feeling that someone really relaxed there control of there dog! The attacker should be subject to the fullness of the law!  And maybe even black listed with all of the schools!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Julie,
>>>> Both dogs were guides.  What I do not know if they were both in harness, but
>>>> both students were attending the blind skills training program and had their
>>>> guides there as well.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J.
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:37 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>> 
>>>> I'd find out who the owner of the dog was.  If there are state laws
>>>> addressing this issue, I'd have a visit with the police and file the
>>>> appropriate paperwork.
>>>> 
>>>> I have no idea what I'd do about my own dog though.  Probably take it very
>>>> easy for a while.  then very gently introduce calm, gentle dogs to see how
>>>> it went.
>>>> 
>>>> Or was the other dog also a guide?  I wasn't exactly sure from your
>>>> description of things.  I don't know that that would substantially change my
>>>> approach, except that I might also let the program know that I was filing a
>>>> report with the police.
>>>> 
>>>> Julie
>>>> On 4/23/2012 5:51 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>>>>> Another what would you do question, or maybe, how would you respond
>>>>> scenarios for you all to ponder.  Many times, we hear of guides and
>>>>> other service dogs being attacked by other stray or uncontrolled dogs,
>>>>> rendering the attacked dog unable to continue in their line of work.
>>>>> Today, I learned from a colleague at work, that her son's good friend,
>>>>> who is blind and attending a formal blind training program, had his
>>>>> dog viciously attacked by another dog.  The injuries were severe, the
>>>>> attacked was unprovoked and the trainers had to break up the fight,
>>>>> but the guide that was attacked, is now showing very serious signs of fear
>>>> and anxiety.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What would you do if you were the handler?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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