[nagdu] How would you respond?

Tue Apr 24 14:41:53 UTC 2012

Cindy, i have to agree with you. I have been debating on if I should
do that same thing, to unsubscribe.

I have loads of questions and things i would love to ask but I am
afraid to, because of the responces I see that comes across this list.

So much drama and aggression.

On 4/24/12, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
> You know what? I fully disagree with you. You don't always know what is
> going to happen until you are in the middle of it. Things happen. I am
> unsubscribing from this list because I'm sick of the judgmental attitude
> here. I've exhibited it myself sometimes, and I don't like it in myself
> either. The only real reason I can see for staying here is that I can learn
> more about whasup at convention.
>
> Cindy
>
> On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>
>> Yes, because the thing is that you are supposed to be able to control your
>> dog!  You are supposed to do this under all circumstances.  Those whom
>> have pet dogs that do this can be sued and have to pay fines or in some
>> circumstances go to jail!  There is no excuse for letting your dog attack
>> another dog!  If its the dog fault, the handler should know his-her dog
>> well enough to keep it out of those situations!  If the dog was offleash,
>> he gets what he gets!  If not black listed then certainly observed very
>> carefuly when next going through a training program!  I know folks who
>> have had guide dogs that value a little aggression.  I don't believe in
>> any aggressive dog who's handler can't control it.  I'm suggesting that
>> sence the dog and handler are both members of a team, they should know
>> each other and how they will react!  A new team might get some leanency
>> because they might not know each other well but otherwise.  This society
>> puts down dogs who become aggressive to humans.  The assumption I am
>> making is that both parties should have had control of there dogs and the
>> one who was the attacker should have been controlled!  Nothing hard or
>> complicated about that!
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" <mewhalen at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>
>>
>>> Wow...this message sure is full of assumptions.  The person should be
>>> black listed because he or she received a dog which attacked another dog.
>>> I do not think dogs are taught aggression.  I think dogs will be dogs,
>>> and it is very unfortunate that this happened, but in no way,
>>> what-so-ever does that mean this handler should never have a guide again.
>>>  My first guide bit one of my pet dogs.  I should probably have never
>>> been given another dog, then, I suppose.  I must have taught her to bite.
>>>  Shame on me.
>>>
>>> I am sorry this message comes off as rude, but I am really really tired
>>> of people assuming it is the person's fault.  We talk about wanting to be
>>> treated fairly and equally by guide dog training programs.  We say that
>>> we are adults and should be treated as such, and then, more than one
>>> person I have come across automatically blames the handler.  If I buy a
>>> new microwave, and I bring it home and plug it in and it doesn't work,
>>> did I do something wrong?  No, there was a problem with the manufacturing
>>> of the product.  If I bring a dog home, and that dog does not guide
>>> effectively, or she barks and/or growls at other dogs, that is not my
>>> fault, either. That does not mean I should not work with the dog to
>>> improve the problems if it seems they could be fixed, but the handler is
>>> not always responsible for what the dog does or does not know.  Please
>>> recall that before a dog is matched with a blind person, the dog has had
>>> a year and a half to two years growing and learning and having
>>> experiences we will never know about.  I am very disappointed in people
>>> who would not wish to be treated in exactly the way they are treating
>>> people who cannot defend themselves.
>>>
>>> Meghan
>>> On 4/24/2012 4:45 AM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>>> Oh, thats bad!  Guides are deffinetely not supposed to do that!  I think
>>>> both schools should be contacted and the case should be taken to court.
>>>> I get the feeling that someone really relaxed there control of there
>>>> dog! The attacker should be subject to the fullness of the law!  And
>>>> maybe even black listed with all of the schools!
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Johnson"
>>>> <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:17 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Julie,
>>>>> Both dogs were guides.  What I do not know if they were both in
>>>>> harness, but
>>>>> both students were attending the blind skills training program and had
>>>>> their
>>>>> guides there as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Julie J.
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:37 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How would you respond?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd find out who the owner of the dog was.  If there are state laws
>>>>> addressing this issue, I'd have a visit with the police and file the
>>>>> appropriate paperwork.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea what I'd do about my own dog though.  Probably take it
>>>>> very
>>>>> easy for a while.  then very gently introduce calm, gentle dogs to see
>>>>> how
>>>>> it went.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or was the other dog also a guide?  I wasn't exactly sure from your
>>>>> description of things.  I don't know that that would substantially
>>>>> change my
>>>>> approach, except that I might also let the program know that I was
>>>>> filing a
>>>>> report with the police.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> On 4/23/2012 5:51 PM, Steven Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> Another what would you do question, or maybe, how would you respond
>>>>>> scenarios for you all to ponder.  Many times, we hear of guides and
>>>>>> other service dogs being attacked by other stray or uncontrolled
>>>>>> dogs,
>>>>>> rendering the attacked dog unable to continue in their line of work.
>>>>>> Today, I learned from a colleague at work, that her son's good
>>>>>> friend,
>>>>>> who is blind and attending a formal blind training program, had his
>>>>>> dog viciously attacked by another dog.  The injuries were severe, the
>>>>>> attacked was unprovoked and the trainers had to break up the fight,
>>>>>> but the guide that was attacked, is now showing very serious signs of
>>>>>> fear
>>>>> and anxiety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would you do if you were the handler?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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