[nagdu] Question about crossing streets - hope this is guide dog related

Sat Apr 28 19:33:37 UTC 2012

Cheryl,

My below email was not just for you, but directed to the list as a whole.
This is the NAGDU list, and although we all have in the past used guides,
use them currently, are interested in them, waiting to receive one, or need
them for our daily lives, is not up for debate. If we have in the past used
a long white cane, or use a long white cane now, or will in the future use a
long white cane in the future is not up for debate either. Which is better
between a dog or a cane is not in question here, as we all have our opinions
and views. Some of us can't use a long white cane, some of us use a long
white cane after our dogs retire, some of us use a long white cane at the
same time we work our dogs, its all up to our own preferences. We all have
different ways of being independent, and no one has the right to say which
is better for us or not. We determine our independence, no one else, nor the
NFB. We aren't even going to debate what the NFB calls independence, as
there are a lot of other emails list for that. Nor are we going to debate if
the NFB is right in what they call independence. Because as I said, we, all
determine our independence.  

The thread was how do drivers see us? Which do they see better; a guide dog
or a person with a cane? Which do they take notice of better; a guide dog or
a person with a cane? Simple and straight. 

If you say what you say is your opinion, then great. But making judgments on
much or little a person is independent because they do this or that is not
right. 

Lets get back to the original thread, okay?

Marsha, Moderator     

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:23 PM
To: nagdu
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about crossing streets - hope this is guide
dog related

fine, next time I will keep my opinions to myself and not say anything.
I will just stay in the background

Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com

For daily updates read our blog at
http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com

> From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:09:18 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about crossing streets - hope this is guide
dog related
> 
> Marilyn's questions was not which method is safer, or which is better. It
> was merely which method do you think drivers pay more attention to. We
> aren't going to get into a discussion about which is better, or which the
> NFB sees better, or which is safer. But how drivers see us, and which they
> pay attention to better. Lets keep it at that, okay?
> 
> Marsha 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of cheryl echevarria
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 1:51 PM
> To: nagdu
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Question about crossing streets - hope this is guide
> dog related
> 
> 
> I am putting 2 cents here!
> Marilyn is a good friend and we disagree on things from time to time likes
> friends do, but I have to say, whether this is guide dog related or not,
we
> are putting a little negativity to the people that use canes and are
> thinking about getting a guide dog, JMO!
> I used a cane way before I got a dog, was taught how to cross the streets
> safely.  
> So my concern with this, is when it comes to the person that for whatever
> reason, either dog is sick, without dog because in between dogs, etc.
Should
> be concerned to be without a dog, because they might get killed crossing
the
> street with a cane.
> My own thinking on people interested in getting a guide dog, and this is
> Cheryl Echevarria's Philosophy on it, and not NAGDU or even NFB, it is
that
> we should now all our skills, sighted guide, cane and guide dog.  We are
all
> about independence, meaning NFB.  So, again, JMO, that if I am without a
> dog, I shouldn't travel or go outside without someone.
> If I did that, I wouldn't leave the house at all.  Training at the guide
dog
> school in this case, GDF, they recommend to use your cane, and not solely
> rely on the dog, so that the dog also gets used to being alone, once in
> awhile, which is good for all.
> My thoughts are all over, but you are getting the point.
> Not to be taken negatively, just to think about our independence, on all
> mobility skills.
> Cheryl
> 
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> 
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> 
> For daily updates read our blog at
> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> 
> > Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:41:32 -0400
> > From: t21114 at optonline.net
> > To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [nagdu] Question about crossing streets - hope this is guide
dog
> related
> > 
> > Hi All,
> > yesterday I had a day off from work so I went to a library where  there
> was a guest speak there from the National Helen Keller Center who teaches
> mobility. He did a power point presentation and told us that when a blind
or
> blind/deaf person tries crossing a street the driver pays more attention
to
> a cane user than to a guide dog user. We were told they did some research
in
> Maryland, Minnesota and I forgot the other state. They did suburbs and
city.
> the man doing the presentation who can see and still drives a car did the
> research. he told us he has glaucoma. He said he dressed in regular street
> clothing , put dark glasses on and used a cane, then a flag and then held
> his hand up to stop traffic to cross.  
> > They had a grant to do this study. I told him since every day I cross
> streets with my guide dog and have had close calls I would have been
killed
> with a cane. My dog didn't go across until it was safe even if I give the
> forward command. I was told that a guide dog team was killed last year
> because the dog went forward and the person had a hearing problem besides
> being blind. I told him I cannot comment on what happened to this person
> because pedestrians who can see are hit by cars every day. 
> > My question is do you think people who drive cars pay more attention to
a
> cane user when your trying to cross a street or do people pay attention to
a
> guide dog user?
> > I asked why a study wasn't done about guide dog users crossing streets
and
> was told there wasn't a grant for that study since more people use canes
> than dogs. 
> > Marilyn and Anna
> > _______________________________________________
> > nagdu mailing list
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> >
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.c
> om
>  		 	   		  
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com