[nagdu] Advice Requested
Mark J. Cadigan
kramc11 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 21 22:22:20 UTC 2012
The forwarding part yes, the deleting part no. I forward it anyway, I just
don't know if a forwarded email has any legal bearing.
Part of why my school emails are automatically forwarded is so I know that I
will have a copy no madder what happens.
You know how computer systems can conveniently crash and whatnot.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
> Can you forward it to your gmail account and then delete it from the
> school server?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>>I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking him
>>to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording the
>>meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the
>> school's servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if you
>> ask me. Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however he only
>> emails me at my school email.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not have
>> an opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along. , although I'd be
>>> curious to see how this person acted in your presence if there were also
>>> sighted witnesses. Plus you're not being there could be misinterpreted
>>> as you not wanting to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are
>>> offering advice from experience rather than speculation. I understand
>>> why you don't want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails and
>>> conversations in this situation isn't adversarial, it's you protecting
>>> yourself. They might interpret it as you being defensive or
>>> confrontational, but a lawyer would see otherwise. Keeping things off
>>> the record might work at first, but it sounds like this person isn't
>>> interested in sticking to the law, this is why I say document, document,
>>> document.
>>>
>>> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the
>>> problem out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation of
>>> the law the easier it will be to go over their head. It could be that
>>> their superior has no clue anything is going on.
>>>
>>> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>>>
>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>
>>> Lisa Belville
>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to
>>>>do with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to know
>>>> that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he
>>>> attempts to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my
>>>> recourse. What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend myself
>>>> against it. I am talking in the legal and school rules realms hear, I
>>>> have no fears that he would try anything other than administrative
>>>> punishment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, Interesting. so the ODS director not only polices the college's
>>>>> property, but property that technically doesn't belong to the college?
>>>>> What then does this presumably educated person do when it comes to
>>>>> actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for doggie skid marks
>>>>> seems a bit below someone with an advanced degree, but stranger things
>>>>> have happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> ? And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person to
>>>>> photograph the area. When the director is pointing out these spots,
>>>>> do you have someone there who can confirm or deny the allegations or
>>>>> do you go out there alone with this person
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and
>>>>> there. Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when
>>>>> they pick up, assuming they pick up. Plus those using dogs for work
>>>>> like bracing or door opening may not be in a position to physically
>>>>> pick up after their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an
>>>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically. The more
>>>>> I read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined that this
>>>>> person has with you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of social
>>>>> networking aspect specific to those with disabilities? It might be
>>>>> worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not you're
>>>>> being singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you out, this
>>>>> behavior is way over the top, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection,
>>>>>> and counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people
>>>>>>> from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that
>>>>>>> it is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in
>>>>>>> your dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot
>>>>>>> worse than it really is--the ODS people may be being told that there
>>>>>>> are massive chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the
>>>>>>> occasional mustard blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know
>>>>>>> about your dog's relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't
>>>>>>> interested in the slightest that I even have a dog, let alone when
>>>>>>> and where it poops. This situation is astonishing to me because of
>>>>>>> that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but the occasional
>>>>>>> compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to business.
>>>>>>> Has somebody from ODS been out there to check the specific spot? You
>>>>>>> should demand that they clean it up since their expertise about dog
>>>>>>> care knows no bounds. You should also inform them that you are a
>>>>>>> grown human being who managed to pass through a college admission
>>>>>>> screening process and that their attitude is disgusting,
>>>>>>> condescending, and appropriate toward a nine-year-old, not a
>>>>>>> competent individual such as yourself who strives to one day soon
>>>>>>> have a degree in hand. Ask them if they also want to monitor your
>>>>>>> pooping behavior and ensure that you are flushing after each #2 you
>>>>>>> make. Ask them also if they plan on eating a four course meal from
>>>>>>> the pavement in question, because if so, then there is a lot more
>>>>>>> that needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them that if
>>>>>>> they are going to treat you like a child, then you want them to also
>>>>>>> go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; those who urinate on
>>>>>>> the pavement; those who throw trash or food on the pavement; those
>>>>>>> who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if they care where your
>>>>>>> dog goes when you are at home because your home is just as
>>>>>>> off-campus as the place you take your dog when you are at school.
>>>>>>> Finally, demand of this person to see their supervisor, to whom you
>>>>>>> will say the same things until somebody decides to get off their
>>>>>>> power trip and treat you like you're the college student that you
>>>>>>> are, not their wayward naughty child.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust,
>>>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all
>>>>>>> that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first.
>>>>>>> However, I assure you that if it were me, that would be the overall
>>>>>>> impression I would try to leave with them. Whether they have a fancy
>>>>>>> policy about dog dung or not, it can't apply off-campus--no matter
>>>>>>> how close to campus it is--off campus is off campus. Period. It
>>>>>>> would be the equivalent of them saying "Clean up more carefully
>>>>>>> after your dog when you're at your mother's house. Otherwise, there
>>>>>>> will be consequences for you." Anyway, I hope you get that resolved.
>>>>>>> Don't hesitate to inform them of their deplorable attitude and
>>>>>>> patronizing policies.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you
>>>>>>>> can say
>>>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and
>>>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your
>>>>>>>> first dog
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I am
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the
>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is not
>>>>>>>> safe
>>>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well lit,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my
>>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in a
>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley
>>>>>>>> that if
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the
>>>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still
>>>>>>>> griping at me
>>>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to the
>>>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I
>>>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The school
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, however,
>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another
>>>>>>>> student in
>>>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my
>>>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student
>>>>>>>> takes her
>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am
>>>>>>>> unable to
>>>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by
>>>>>>>> either the
>>>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a
>>>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/missktlab1217%40frontier.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/missktlab1217%40frontier.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list