[nagdu] Email Forwarding was Re: Advice Requested

Mark J. Cadigan kramc11 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 21 22:45:35 UTC 2012 

It automatically forwards, then archives for its records. My concern is it's 
not going mysteriously missing if it is required.



You know, like Enron and the file shredders.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Email Forwarding was Re: Advice Requested


> Most email servers allow you to forward to another address and then there 
> is an option as to whether the server keeps a copy or deletes it. Even if 
> the server does not delete it, you could delete it by hand. If your server 
> will not forward, you can forward yourself; the forwarded email still 
> contains all headers and other important information from the original 
> message. Also, when a server forwards to another address, it still shows 
> as being sent to the original address.
>    I am not saying that you have to use this method.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>
>
>> The forwarding part yes, the deleting part no. I forward it anyway, I 
>> just don't know if a forwarded email has any legal bearing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Part of why my school emails are automatically forwarded is so I know 
>> that I will have a copy no madder what happens.
>>
>>
>>
>> You know how computer systems can conveniently crash and whatnot.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>
>>
>>> Can you forward it to your gmail account and then delete it from the 
>>> school server?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>
>>>
>>>>I do document everything, but I am probably going to do that by asking 
>>>>him to send me a written confirmation of what we agree on, or recording 
>>>>the meeting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I am trying to do is avoid the documentation being held on the 
>>>> school's servers. This does not sound like a good place to keep it if 
>>>> you ask me. Perhaps if he would email me at my gmail account, however 
>>>> he only emails me at my school email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was only informed about his inspection after the fact, and did not 
>>>> have an opportunity to go on his inspection with him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Okay, I don't blame you for not tagging along.  , although I'd be 
>>>>> curious to see how this person acted in your presence if there were 
>>>>> also sighted witnesses.  Plus you're not being there could be 
>>>>> misinterpreted as you not wanting to solve the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those of us who have had situations with our dogs in the past are 
>>>>> offering advice from experience rather than speculation.  I understand 
>>>>> why you don't want to be seen as adversarial, but documenting Emails 
>>>>> and conversations in this situation isn't adversarial, it's you 
>>>>> protecting yourself.  They might interpret it as you being defensive 
>>>>> or confrontational, but a lawyer would see otherwise.  Keeping things 
>>>>> off the record might work at first, but it sounds like this person 
>>>>> isn't interested in sticking to the law, this is why I say document, 
>>>>> document, document.
>>>>>
>>>>> Believe me, the more proof you have that you're trying to work the 
>>>>> problem out and are being thwarted by one person's misinterpretation 
>>>>> of the law the easier it will be to go over their head.  It could be 
>>>>> that their superior has no clue anything is going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was not with him when he made the inspection. I had better things to 
>>>>>>do with my life besides analyze doggy skid marks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He can love me or hate me, and I don't really care. He just got to 
>>>>>> know that when pushed, I swing back and hit hard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My point of asking this on list besides simply venting is if he 
>>>>>> attempts to pursue this any stronger than grumbling at me, what is my 
>>>>>> recourse. What if anything can he due to me and how can I defend 
>>>>>> myself against it. I am talking in the legal and school rules realms 
>>>>>> hear, I have no fears that he would try anything other than 
>>>>>> administrative punishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:34 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm, Interesting.  so the ODS director not only polices the 
>>>>>>> college's property, but property that technically doesn't belong to 
>>>>>>> the college? What then does this presumably educated person do when 
>>>>>>> it comes to actual work? Getting paid to be outside looking for 
>>>>>>> doggie skid marks seems a bit below someone with an advanced degree, 
>>>>>>> but stranger things have happened.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?  And yes, that was sarcasm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the person who suggested that you get a sighted person 
>>>>>>> to photograph the area.  When the director is pointing out these 
>>>>>>> spots, do you have someone there who can confirm or deny the 
>>>>>>> allegations or do you go out there alone with this person
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Surely people with other service dogs are missing spots here and 
>>>>>>> there. Even fully sighted people don't get every single shred when 
>>>>>>> they pick up, assuming they pick up.  Plus those using dogs for work 
>>>>>>> like bracing or door opening may not be in a position to physically 
>>>>>>> pick up after their dog, so how do they deal with this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess what I'm asking here is whether or not this director has an 
>>>>>>> issue with service dogs in general or with you specifically.  The 
>>>>>>> more I read, I have to wonder if it's some beef, real or imagined 
>>>>>>> that this person has with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does your college have a disabled students club or some kind of 
>>>>>>> social networking aspect specific to those with disabilities?  It 
>>>>>>> might be worth it to go this route to at least learn whether or not 
>>>>>>> you're being singled out. Even if this person isn't singling you 
>>>>>>> out, this behavior is way over the top, IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll try anything once, especially if it's chocolate covered!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa Belville
>>>>>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:02 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, the director of the ODS office made a dog dropping inspection, 
>>>>>>>> and counted "no less than 8 skid marks on the pavement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know who his boss is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The security guards love my dog. I don't think it is them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Robert Hooper" <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:35 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You shouldn't have to do that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who, specifically, is giving you the hard time? Do you have people 
>>>>>>>>> from ODS following you around everywhere? Who is telling them that 
>>>>>>>>> it is your dog--could it be the aforementioned security guards in 
>>>>>>>>> your dorm filing complaints? If so, they may make it sound a lot 
>>>>>>>>> worse than it really is--the ODS people may be being told that 
>>>>>>>>> there are massive chunks of doggy dung lying around instead of the 
>>>>>>>>> occasional mustard blot. I just don't see how ODS would even know 
>>>>>>>>> about your dog's relieving behavior. ODS at my school isn't 
>>>>>>>>> interested in the slightest that I even have a dog, let alone when 
>>>>>>>>> and where it poops. This situation is astonishing to me because of 
>>>>>>>>> that. When I stroll into ODS, I get nothing but the occasional 
>>>>>>>>> compliment about my "pretty shepherd" and then it's on to 
>>>>>>>>> business. Has somebody from ODS been out there to check the 
>>>>>>>>> specific spot? You should demand that they clean it up since their 
>>>>>>>>> expertise about dog care knows no bounds. You should also inform 
>>>>>>>>> them that you are a grown human being who managed to pass through 
>>>>>>>>> a college admission screening process and that their attitude is 
>>>>>>>>> disgusting, condescending, and appropriate toward a nine-year-old, 
>>>>>>>>> not a competent individual such as yourself who strives to one day 
>>>>>>>>> soon have a degree in hand. Ask them if they also want to monitor 
>>>>>>>>> your pooping behavior and ensure that you are flushing after each 
>>>>>>>>> #2 you make. Ask them also if they plan on eating a four course 
>>>>>>>>> meal from the pavement in question, because if so, then there is a 
>>>>>>>>> lot more that needs done to clean it up than Mr. Clean. Tell them 
>>>>>>>>> that if they are going to treat you like a child, then you want 
>>>>>>>>> them to also go after the drunks that puke on the pavement; those 
>>>>>>>>> who urinate on the pavement; those who throw trash or food on the 
>>>>>>>>> pavement; those who spit their gum on the pavement. Ask them if 
>>>>>>>>> they care where your dog goes when you are at home because your 
>>>>>>>>> home is just as off-campus as the place you take your dog when you 
>>>>>>>>> are at school. Finally, demand of this person to see their 
>>>>>>>>> supervisor, to whom you will say the same things until somebody 
>>>>>>>>> decides to get off their power trip and treat you like you're the 
>>>>>>>>> college student that you are, not their wayward naughty child.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the rant, but people and situations like that disgust, 
>>>>>>>>> sicken, and sadden me. Of course, you probably shouldn't spout all 
>>>>>>>>> that to anyone. At least make it sound more diplomatic first. 
>>>>>>>>> However, I assure you that if it were me, that would be the 
>>>>>>>>> overall impression I would try to leave with them. Whether they 
>>>>>>>>> have a fancy policy about dog dung or not, it can't apply 
>>>>>>>>> off-campus--no matter how close to campus it is--off campus is off 
>>>>>>>>> campus. Period. It would be the equivalent of them saying "Clean 
>>>>>>>>> up more carefully after your dog when you're at your mother's 
>>>>>>>>> house. Otherwise, there will be consequences for you." Anyway, I 
>>>>>>>>> hope you get that resolved. Don't hesitate to inform them of their 
>>>>>>>>> deplorable attitude and patronizing policies.
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>> Robert Hooper
>>>>>>>>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>>>>>>>>> The Ohio State University
>>>>>>>>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>>>>>>>>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>>>>>>>>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>>>>>>>>> (740) 856-8195
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 12:00 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I may just do that. But, I would rather not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:55 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take the dog behind the chain, then and if there is a problem you 
>>>>>>>>>> can say
>>>>>>>>>> that the ODS office has given you no choice because of their
>>>>>>>>>> obstructionist
>>>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They really don't sound nice, my god
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, take your dog where it's convenient for you and 
>>>>>>>>>> fornicate
>>>>>>>>>> them if they don't like it.
>>>>>>>>>> Easy for me to say right--smile--I'm not the one who has to live 
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I just find it unconscionable, after all training with your 
>>>>>>>>>> first dog
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> so stressful and now to have this idiocy you have to deal with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf
>>>>>>>>>> Of Mark J. Cadigan
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 11:48 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advice Requested
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for your response.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My dog does not mind pavement relieving. The patch of pavement I 
>>>>>>>>>> am using
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> public property and not owned by the school. I believe all the 
>>>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>>>> doing is blowing hot air.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no grass available for several blocks, and the area is 
>>>>>>>>>> not safe
>>>>>>>>>> after about 10:00pm. The location I am currently using is well 
>>>>>>>>>> lit, and
>>>>>>>>>> visible to the officers at the security desk of my dorm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What kinds of modifications can the school require I make to my 
>>>>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>>>>> relieving practices? He is going on the shoulder of the rode, in 
>>>>>>>>>> a sort of
>>>>>>>>>> inlet that leads down an alley. There is a chain across the alley 
>>>>>>>>>> that if
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> passed it I would be on private property. I don't go passed the 
>>>>>>>>>> chain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am removing 95% or higher of every deposit. They are still 
>>>>>>>>>> griping at me
>>>>>>>>>> for when due to no fault of my own, some remnants get stuck to 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> pavement
>>>>>>>>>> witch can't be removed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is also a trash can within 20ft of this patch of pavement I 
>>>>>>>>>> deposit
>>>>>>>>>> the bagged waist in this trash receptacle.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the policy and procedure recommended by Fidelco. The 
>>>>>>>>>> school is
>>>>>>>>>> threatening to write me up for a violation of the ODS amendment 
>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>> student handbook. This section does not specify a punishment, so 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> punishment would be at the discretion of the school.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am not the first student to have a guide dog on campus, 
>>>>>>>>>> however, I am
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> only one the ODS office has decided to harass. There is another 
>>>>>>>>>> student in
>>>>>>>>>> my dorm with a guide dog. However her dog is much smaller than my 
>>>>>>>>>> dog,
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> a corresponding reduction in size of its deposit. This student 
>>>>>>>>>> takes her
>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> behind the aforementioned chain onto private property. I am not
>>>>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>>>>> in doing this without the consent of the property owner. I am 
>>>>>>>>>> unable to
>>>>>>>>>> determine the property owner; however, I believe it is owned by 
>>>>>>>>>> either the
>>>>>>>>>> state or federal government. The property belongs to either a 
>>>>>>>>>> courthouse
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> office building or perhaps both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for nagdu:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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