[nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Sat Jul 7 19:53:42 UTC 2012 

Diversity, then, is the variety of those being included, I should think?

Cindy Lou

On Jul 7, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:

> Margo,
> 
> I choose "inclusion" to describe a state of being precisely because you are
> "inclusive" or not.  If you wish to say you, or an organization is
> "inclusive", then you are or you are not.  You can't decide you are
> inclusive if you determine that one class or another is not worth thinking
> about.  If you leave out any group of people then you are not truly
> "inclusive".
> 
> I just searched Google for a definition of "inclusive" and found this:
> "Inclusive means something that does not leave any part or group out."
> There is no middle ground. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Margo and Arrow
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:43 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
> 
> Michael, this is precisely why I discourage people from using the term
> "diversity".  Now I know Julie used it because that's what the training was
> called.  I'd like to see "inclusivity training" or some other term using the
> word "inclusion" or "inclusive" or some other derivation for this type of
> training.  Now, having said that, people can forget and exclude a group from
> being included because a group is not thought of as important enough or
> credible enough or worldly enough to be included.
> 
> I truly believe that we are not included in varous trainings or group
> situations because it is thought that we wouldn't have jobs, we're being
> taken care of, we're not out in the world, what do the blind know anyway, we
> couldn't live without our doggies, we are to be pitied.  I think to teach
> inclusion is to not only teach what groups are to be included and that all
> people are included and how to include all people, but, respecting
> others--what does tha mean in the inclusion process?
> 
> Margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
> 
> 
>> Margo,
>> 
>> That is why "Diversity" is such an inappropriate term to use when 
>> discussing
>> bringing all "different" groups together.  Last year I wrote a speech I
>> often give called "Moving From Diversity to Inclusion".  If a group or a
>> person is "inclusive" then there is no room for leaving out anyone or you
>> are using the term incorrectly.
>> 
>> Last October I conducted a workshop at a group discussing and promoting
>> "Diversity".  During the morning keynote speech the speaker did not once
>> mention disabilities as a part of the diverse range of groups who are left
>> out of society.  So, Margo, you are right in your observation.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Margo and Arrow
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 09:30 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>> 
>> Has anyone noticed that in diversity training or sensitivity training, the
>> disabled are often excluded or glossed over, including no education about
>> service animals?
>> 
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>> 
>> 
>>> I agree with both of you.  Julie, your experience with diversity training
>>> is similar to mine.  I'm happy to learn about other cultures, but the
>>> whole thing seemed pretty phony.  And I'll take respect over 
>>> understanding
>>> every time.Just respect me as an adult fellow human, and we're good.
>>> Understanding may follow, but, even if it doesn't, it doesn't matter,
>>> since, if you respect me, you'll either figure I have the brains to work
>>> things out myself, or you'll ask if I need a hand.
>>> And Buddy, I too don't see it as my mission in life to educate everyone I
>>> meet about blindness.  I reckon just getting on with my life ought to be
>>> enough. If they harass me, I'll explain the law or whatever, but mainly
>>>  I have places to go and things to do.
>>> Tracy
>>>> Julie,
>>>> 
>>>> Right on, right on, right on! I'm sure some of my fellow blind folk will
>>>> take issue with this, but I'm so over educating the public. Look what
>>>> good
>>>> it's done for us, your conference coordinator being a shining example.
>>>> Darn it all, we don't need education. While ignorance is curable, 
>>>> there's
>>>> plenty of education to be had, should people care to have it, and it
>>>> doesn't have to come from me. It's time that we quit with this belief
>>>> that
>>>> our lot in life is to be the ambassador for every stink in blind person
>>>> out there and by god just live our lives and do our things. But it's 
>>>> also
>>>> time that we demand the respect due us as human beings.
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:08 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I wrote a bit about this a couple of weeks ago, but I've been thinking
>>>>> more on the topic ...I know scary!  LOL  Anyway I attended this
>>>>> diversity training seminar last spring.  It was a part of a larger
>>>>> training event on drug/alcohol prevention and not something I would 
>>>>> have
>>>>> attended separately.  anyway the presenter talked about education and
>>>>> understanding different cultures and whatnot.  There was a lot of
>>>>> emphasis on what she called cultural competency, which I took to mean
>>>>> being educated about various cultures.
>>>>> 
>>>>> the whole time I'm sitting there listening to this presentation I'm
>>>>> thinking about the conversation we had about my hotel reservations.
>>>>> This particular presenter was the coordinator for the conference.  She
>>>>> made the hotel reservations for many of the attendees because the
>>>>> sponsoring agency was covering the hotel.  It's much easier to do the
>>>>> paperwork that way.  Anyway she knows I'm blind and that I have Monty.
>>>>> she also knows I can walk up and down stairs and whatnot.  Still she
>>>>> informed the hotel that I needed a first floor room and that I'd be
>>>>> accompanied by a guide dog.  she also assured the hotel that I'd be no
>>>>> problem that I was quite independent.  I have no words to express my
>>>>> feelings about this statement.  Unimpressed is about the nicest thing I
>>>>> can say.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So back to diversity training...she's talking about understanding and
>>>>> education and how important it is to know all about other people of
>>>>> various cultures, races, disabilities etc.  Immediately after this
>>>>> lecture we have a break where no less than three people come up to me 
>>>>> to
>>>>> ask inappropriate questions or to pet Monty without asking.  Honestly
>>>>> I'm not opposed to answering questions, but when I'm engaged in a
>>>>> different conversation and you interrupt to ask how much I can see, 
>>>>> well
>>>>> it's just rude.  It was at that moment that I realized that I don't 
>>>>> give
>>>>> a crap about education or understanding or cultural competency or
>>>>> whatever you want to call it.  Sure if people understood, I mean really
>>>>> got it, about blindness that would be grand.  I don't need that though.
>>>>> What I really, really want is respect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> t
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