[nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Michael Hingson info at michaelhingson.com
Sun Jul 8 04:46:41 UTC 2012 

Not really so long as you can exclude.  Diversity recognizes differences,
but so-called diverse-minded individuals often exclude disabilities as Margo
pointed out.  Therefore, as stated before, those people or groups are not
truly inclusive.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 12:54 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Inclusive discussion

Diversity, then, is the variety of those being included, I should think?

Cindy Lou

On Jul 7, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Michael Hingson wrote:

> Margo,
> 
> I choose "inclusion" to describe a state of being precisely because 
> you are "inclusive" or not.  If you wish to say you, or an 
> organization is "inclusive", then you are or you are not.  You can't 
> decide you are inclusive if you determine that one class or another is 
> not worth thinking about.  If you leave out any group of people then 
> you are not truly "inclusive".
> 
> I just searched Google for a definition of "inclusive" and found this:
> "Inclusive means something that does not leave any part or group out."
> There is no middle ground. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:43 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
> 
> Michael, this is precisely why I discourage people from using the term 
> "diversity".  Now I know Julie used it because that's what the 
> training was called.  I'd like to see "inclusivity training" or some 
> other term using the word "inclusion" or "inclusive" or some other 
> derivation for this type of training.  Now, having said that, people 
> can forget and exclude a group from being included because a group is 
> not thought of as important enough or credible enough or worldly enough to
be included.
> 
> I truly believe that we are not included in varous trainings or group 
> situations because it is thought that we wouldn't have jobs, we're 
> being taken care of, we're not out in the world, what do the blind 
> know anyway, we couldn't live without our doggies, we are to be 
> pitied.  I think to teach inclusion is to not only teach what groups 
> are to be included and that all people are included and how to include 
> all people, but, respecting others--what does tha mean in the inclusion
process?
> 
> Margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
> 
> 
>> Margo,
>> 
>> That is why "Diversity" is such an inappropriate term to use when 
>> discussing bringing all "different" groups together.  Last year I 
>> wrote a speech I often give called "Moving From Diversity to 
>> Inclusion".  If a group or a person is "inclusive" then there is no 
>> room for leaving out anyone or you are using the term incorrectly.
>> 
>> Last October I conducted a workshop at a group discussing and 
>> promoting "Diversity".  During the morning keynote speech the speaker 
>> did not once mention disabilities as a part of the diverse range of 
>> groups who are left out of society.  So, Margo, you are right in your
observation.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Margo and Arrow
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 09:30 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>> 
>> Has anyone noticed that in diversity training or sensitivity 
>> training, the disabled are often excluded or glossed over, including 
>> no education about service animals?
>> 
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] understanding vs. respect
>> 
>> 
>>> I agree with both of you.  Julie, your experience with diversity 
>>> training is similar to mine.  I'm happy to learn about other 
>>> cultures, but the whole thing seemed pretty phony.  And I'll take 
>>> respect over understanding every time.Just respect me as an adult 
>>> fellow human, and we're good.
>>> Understanding may follow, but, even if it doesn't, it doesn't 
>>> matter, since, if you respect me, you'll either figure I have the 
>>> brains to work things out myself, or you'll ask if I need a hand.
>>> And Buddy, I too don't see it as my mission in life to educate 
>>> everyone I meet about blindness.  I reckon just getting on with my 
>>> life ought to be enough. If they harass me, I'll explain the law or 
>>> whatever, but mainly  I have places to go and things to do.
>>> Tracy
>>>> Julie,
>>>> 
>>>> Right on, right on, right on! I'm sure some of my fellow blind folk 
>>>> will take issue with this, but I'm so over educating the public. 
>>>> Look what good it's done for us, your conference coordinator being 
>>>> a shining example.
>>>> Darn it all, we don't need education. While ignorance is curable, 
>>>> there's plenty of education to be had, should people care to have 
>>>> it, and it doesn't have to come from me. It's time that we quit 
>>>> with this belief that our lot in life is to be the ambassador for 
>>>> every stink in blind person out there and by god just live our 
>>>> lives and do our things. But it's also time that we demand the 
>>>> respect due us as human beings.
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:08 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I wrote a bit about this a couple of weeks ago, but I've been 
>>>>> thinking more on the topic ...I know scary!  LOL  Anyway I 
>>>>> attended this diversity training seminar last spring.  It was a 
>>>>> part of a larger training event on drug/alcohol prevention and not 
>>>>> something I would have attended separately.  anyway the presenter 
>>>>> talked about education and understanding different cultures and 
>>>>> whatnot.  There was a lot of emphasis on what she called cultural 
>>>>> competency, which I took to mean being educated about various 
>>>>> cultures.
>>>>> 
>>>>> the whole time I'm sitting there listening to this presentation 
>>>>> I'm thinking about the conversation we had about my hotel
reservations.
>>>>> This particular presenter was the coordinator for the conference.  
>>>>> She made the hotel reservations for many of the attendees because 
>>>>> the sponsoring agency was covering the hotel.  It's much easier to 
>>>>> do the paperwork that way.  Anyway she knows I'm blind and that I have
Monty.
>>>>> she also knows I can walk up and down stairs and whatnot.  Still 
>>>>> she informed the hotel that I needed a first floor room and that 
>>>>> I'd be accompanied by a guide dog.  she also assured the hotel 
>>>>> that I'd be no problem that I was quite independent.  I have no 
>>>>> words to express my feelings about this statement.  Unimpressed is 
>>>>> about the nicest thing I can say.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So back to diversity training...she's talking about understanding 
>>>>> and education and how important it is to know all about other 
>>>>> people of various cultures, races, disabilities etc.  Immediately 
>>>>> after this lecture we have a break where no less than three people 
>>>>> come up to me to ask inappropriate questions or to pet Monty 
>>>>> without asking.  Honestly I'm not opposed to answering questions, 
>>>>> but when I'm engaged in a different conversation and you interrupt 
>>>>> to ask how much I can see, well it's just rude.  It was at that 
>>>>> moment that I realized that I don't give a crap about education or 
>>>>> understanding or cultural competency or whatever you want to call 
>>>>> it.  Sure if people understood, I mean really got it, about 
>>>>> blindness that would be grand.  I don't need that though.
>>>>> What I really, really want is respect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> .name
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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