[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

[d m gina]

Thanks you answered my question.

Original message:
> As the Director of a non-profit legal advocacy program dedicated to 
> Service Dogs, then, I will partially address this other business. 
> Please note, however, that I am not a lawyer.  This should not be 
> construed as legal advice and so should you have questions or need 
> please either contact the ProBoneO Program (www.proboneoprogram.com or 
> on FaceBook) or an appropriately credentialed attorney in the proper 
> jurisdiction...standard disclaimer!

> There is nothing and has never been anything that says that service 
> dogs have to wear capes, harnesses, have special leashes or anything of 
> the sort.  Some states have wording on their books about 
> capes/harnesses and what kind the dog must/should be wearing in order 
> to qualify for any higher levels of protection that the state might be 
> offering...like criminal penalties for interference with a team. 
> Federal law says nothing on the matter and never has.

> Of course, any dog can be kicked out of a business if it is 
> behaving inappropriately...particularly if the handler is not taking 
> active steps to remedy the problem.  ONLY the dog can be required to be 
> removed, NOT the disabled person.  This can only be done by the 
> business.  As another dog handler at the same event, the most you can 
> really do is go to the manager/event staff (it must be what is called 
> an "interested party"), inform them of THEIR rights and maybe suggest 
> that you'd be willing to be a witness that the team was having too off 
> a day to be in that place just in case the person later tries to sue 
> the business for kicking the dog out.  Indeed, as a patron, it's not 
> even legal for you to ask the questions that the business - as an 
> "interested party" - is legally allowed to ask.  It might be cool to 
> ask if you're doing so in a friendly way and just talking dog, but not 
> if you're just kinda being nosy or are wanting to get the dog bounced.
>   You CAN go and inform the manager, preferably by handing them a print 
> out of something like the DOJ Business Brief, what the legally 
> allowable questions are and then let the business make the call as to 
> what they want to do.  All of that said, as a handler, you would become 
> an interested party at the point where you or your dog was growled at 
> or attacked...but then you don't ask the allowable questions.  You 
> probably should call the cops.  Some people still opt to go to 
> management first.  Others are good enough to calmly talk to the other 
> handler and usually get them to leave if there's been no "damage"...but 
> if there's been damage or you've really been snarled at or snapped at 
> and it's turning into a scene or an issue, please contact law 
> enforcement and keep as calm as possible.

> The reality is that if someone brings a well-enough trained pet into a 
> business and then is willing to lie convincingly enough if asked the 
> legally allowable questions, nobody's ever going to know the difference 
> unless they confess or something.  Frankly, especially if the dog is 
> wearing a professional looking vest and leash.  As long as the dog 
> never acts in an out-of-control fashion, is housebroken and is clean 
> and free from offensive odors - which are the standards for all service 
> dogs - then they'll probably get away with it.  Their dog is also not 
> going to be causing problems.  It's not right, but at least it's 
> probably not too bad.  The problems seems to be when the business is 
> too uninformed about THEIR rights to kick out the badly behaved dogs. 
> They are terrified they are going to get sued.  This is a great place 
> for those with legit dogs to step in and become educators and 
> ambassadors if this is an issue they want to help with.  It's
>  not much effort to carry some of the DOJ fliers I mentioned and give 
> them to businesses and then maybe talk with the manager briefly about 
> their rights and what a well-trained team would look like, do things 
> like offer to be a witness if they do get sued or if the cops get 
> called who is willing to say the dog was acting inappropriately and the 
> handler did nothing about it. (Any team can have a whoops, so I like to 
> see if the handler is oblivious or if they're trying to fix it/get 
> through and get out...I'd hope someone would cut me and mine some 
> slack, too.  Our dogs aren't robots!)

> Sorry to be the bearer of probably unwanted news,
> Dailyah Rudek



>> ________________________________
>> From: d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net>
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2012 7:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are 
>> preventing a need for a guide dog!

>> Hello,
>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says 
>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a 
>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on 
>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just 
>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our 
>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his 
>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing thanks,
>> Original message:
>>> Hi gang,

>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some 
>>> questions.  There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs 
>>> and even owner-trainers.  They range from the rather large and very 
>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer 
>>> programs to owner-trained dogs.  d4d is an ADI member program.  ADI is 
>>> the equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some 
>>> of the smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are 
>>> buyer-beware.  Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of 
>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long 
>>> and many competent people have decided to train their own dogs.  That 
>>> can be a just fine option, too.  Almost everyone from d4d to 
>>> owner-trainer uses fairly similar standards.  The dogs are trained to 
>>> alert their person when the person's blood glucose begins to drop too 
>>> low (60-70, normal is at least 80).  If the dog
>>>   can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too 
>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help 
>>> themselves raise their blood glucose.  This is especially critical when 
>>> the diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep. 
>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". 
>>> Their numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma 
>>> and are dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even 
>>> if "awake" in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so 
>>> they can't think straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or 
>>> whatever and that's it.  Very sad and scary.  The beauty here is that a 
>>> human's sleep cycle is quite long...multiple hours.  A dog's sleep 
>>> cycle is FAR shorter...I want to say about 90 minutes or so.  This 
>>> means that the dog is mostly awake and can smell the low on their 
>>> person and wake them up to tell them at many different points
>>>   throughout the night.  The dogs are generally taught to alert to the 
>>> lows and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to 
>>> smell...even you or I can smell it, no problem.  The ketones smell 
>>> really sweet when someone is running high, so the diabetic's breath 
>>> will reek!  Dogs often will start to alert the highs once they get that 
>>> their job is to tell their human when they're smelling funny, but dogs 
>>> who are rewarded too often for alerting to high often start to only 
>>> alert to high because it's so easy for them to smell.  What we really 
>>> NEED the dog alerting to is the lows, though, so can't let the dogs get 
>>> lazy and stop smelling for the harder to catch lows!

>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting 
>>> dogs for diabetics.  I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's 
>>> a whole different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now 
>>> everyone knows more about the dogs for diabetics.

>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe 
>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case.  The 
>>> dogs will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and 
>>> be able to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while 
>>> they are driving.  (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful 
>>> service!)  A dog may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert 
>>> them that they're low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes 
>>> low, brain function declines and suddenly you've got a programmer 
>>> probably making all kinds of errors.  All sorts of things like that, so 
>>> the dogs do need public access and protection just like guide dogs and 
>>> other kinds of more commonly recognized service dogs.

>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none 
>>> other than the nearby GDB.  It's a good career change.  Often a dog 
>>> that won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog.  I'm 
>>> sure you all know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who 
>>> need guides because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a 
>>> well-trained glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic 
>>> is a wonderful way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better 
>>> controlled and postpone or even prevent that person from ever needing a 
>>> Guide due to diabetes complications.  I think this is great as long as 
>>> it's done well, ethically, safely, etc!

>>> Dogs rock.  It's people I sometimes wonder about.  ;)  j/k (sort of!)

>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director




>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please

>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.  
>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog.  I'm remembering 
>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon?  Of course the dog 
>>>> wouldn't have had to come from this or any program to be trained to 
>>>> alert to the guy's medical condition.


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>> -- --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>> FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future

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