[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

Fri Nov 9 18:35:34 UTC 2012

BTW Dar,

It really doesn't matter whether yur dog came from a program or not, or for that matter, whether theirs did or not. If your dog was attacked and injured, whether the other dog was a service dog or not, that person's right to be accompanied by a service dog is not absolute. If his dog attacked your dog and injured it, that dog was not under adequate control and, in disrupting the regular business of the public accommodation, could be legitimately removed. The dog, that is, not the person. Moreover, That person would still be responsible for the injury, service dog or not. So I fail to see your point here. 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY

On Nov 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Melissa R Green <graduate56 at juno.com> wrote:

> I know a person who ordered a harness from canada, and got a a school to certify her pet dog as a service dog.  I did a search online and you can buy a harness.  My trainer and I also did a search over the phone and she was surprised that harnesses are being sold online.
> this person might be ledgit.  But there are those who aren't ledgit.  Dar brings up a good question.  How does a blind person handle a situation like this?
> Especially, if anyone can by a harness or a vest online.  Like the person I spoke of in the beginning of my message.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: d m gina
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!
> 
> Hello,
> yes it does matter that the person have some kind of proof their dog is
> a service dog.
> What does happen when I take a stand because their dog bit mine and I
> would press charges, who wins there, I have my card, I have the collar
> that says seeing eye, I have a leash that says seeing eye, and I have
> the harness that says seeing eye.
> What makes me angry is Joe blow comes in with his dog only a collar,
> and he gets in, where I have to have my dog dressed in its outfit to
> work him and I am proud of this.
> I am just asking from a blind persons view I wouldn't know if the
> person was telling the truth or not.
> I for the most part bind my own business, unless I hear dogs groweling
> because they don't like set dog.
> Who would I stand up for, if both persons claim they have service dogs.
> I walk with no shame at all, that my dog was trained, I don't have to
> studder and walk around the issue.
> As what happened over the weekend.
> I asked my husband if he knew this person and he said no, he couldn't
> even remember who the person was that had the dog.
> It is just interesting to me, to learn as working with nagdu I want to
> help spread the good of this organization and can't do well if I don't
> know the exact steps to take, when I can't even tell if a dog is a
> service dog or not.
> Oh well, I will stay a happy camper, work my dog, and just be the Dar I know.
> I will let others decide what is good and what isn't.
> My specialtys can be used for other organizations.
> It is ok for me to say I couldn't tell if the set dog is a service dog or not.
> As long as I take care of me that is all that matters.
> We the team are doing quite well, three months into the program from
> seeing eye.
> he rocked at the convention, keeping himself as a little gentleman should.
> I did use the gentle leader at the dining room table so he wouldn't try
> to dive for food.
> One time he dove for a peace of paper, as I did ask the waitress what
> he was trying to go for.
> he thought it was food loll.
> I understand, I didn't bring his food so he had to wait until he got
> home he thought smile.
> the little bowl I took I was starting to wonder if the two cups of food
> would fit.
> It did, and I was pleased.
> the more we are a team the better.
> he is starting to remember the persons car or van we travel in, and
> that is good.
> We went threw a parking lot, on our own where he found the correct car
> on his own.
> The driver and the grocery guy walked ahead.
> I am so proud of this boy, I could write forever.
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> Original message:
>> Dar,
>> If I read your post right, you are concerned with the fact that someone
>> brings a dog into a place where you're at.  You are totally blind and are
>> worried about if that dog will scare the crap out of you - it growls
>> menacinginly at your dog or it actually tries to attack your dog.  Is this
>> correct?
> 
>> I hear you on this and your concerns are very valid.  I've been a guide dog
>> user for a very long time and have been the target of several attacks on my
>> dogs over the years.  My limited vision doesn't always see that there's a
>> menacing dog nearby but I'll hear it if it snarls at my dog.  It does scare
>> the crap out of me.
> 
>> What I find is that many people don't care if their dog is socialized for
>> public access - I'm talking about pets.  People don't bother to train their
>> dogs to walk nice on a leash. In earlier times, my dogs have been accosted
>> by nasty pets that are not under control by their humans.  Now that same
>> problem remains the same only now there are people who claim hidden
>> disability and their dog is a service dog.  They may really have a
>> disability but they do not know that they have standards that their dog must
>> adhere to.  the humans don't give a rat's behind if their dog bothers a
>> working guide dog or service dog walking along doing its job.  This is a
>> huge problem in the city where people have to walk their dogs and they have
>> all these little ankle biters.
> 
>> Now, add to this mix the past lax rules of ADA which allowed for anything
>> someone called a "service animal".  The owners have had no training on
>> proper ettiquete with having a dog in public where pets aren't allowed. It
>> has taken us too many years - 20 years - to finally tighten up the ADA
>> rules.  The horse is out of the barn and now we want to shut the door.
>> Well, too late now - it's out.  And there are problems for us with
>> litgitimate guide and service dogs that actually are trained to perform a
>> task to mitigate our disabilities.  And there's no real way to stop the
>> abuse of ADA.  The ADA prevents this by not allowing the having to show
>> proof via ID cards, vests, whatever.  This won't work anyway because people
>> can always make IDs or buy vests on the Internet.
> 
>> I think this all boils down to educating businesses to the ADA and it's
>> rules concerning service dogs.  We have to educate them to know that they
>> are within their rights to kick out individuals who do not control their
>> dogs properly.  They have to realize that they have this right and will not
>> be sued.  If they are, they think they'll lose and that will cost them lots
>> of money.  Business owners are afraid of violating the ADA and put up with
>> the problem children.  And, of course, there are those business people who
>> don't care about ADA and try to deny us our rights of access.
> 
>> A vest or ID doesn't make a dog a real service dog and it really doesn't
>> make sense to rail on that issue.  We really need to deal with the HUGE
>> issue of ill behaved dogs in public and what can we do about that issue.
> 
>> BTW, hope the new dog is working out well for you.
> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a
>> need for a guide dog!
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says
>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a
>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on
>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just
>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our
>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his
>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing
>> thanks,
>> Original message:
>>> Hi gang,
> 
>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some
>>> questions. There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs and
>>> even owner-trainers. They range from the rather large and very
>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer
>>> programs to owner-trained dogs. d4d is an ADI member program. ADI is the
>>> equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some of the
>>> smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are
>>> buyer-beware. Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of
>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long and
>>> many competent people have decided to train their own dogs. That can be a
>>> just fine option, too. Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses
>>> fairly similar standards. The dogs are trained to alert their person when
>>> the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is at
>>> least 80). If the dog
>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too
>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help
>>> themselves raise their blood glucose. This is especially critical when the
>>> diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep.
>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". Their
>>> numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and are
>>> dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if "awake"
>>> in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't think
>>> straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and that's
>>> it. Very sad and scary. The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle is
>>> quite long...multiple hours. A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I want
>>> to say about 90 minutes or so. This means that the dog is mostly awake and
>>> can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at many
>>> different points
>>> throughout the night. The dogs are generally taught to alert to the lows
>>> and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to smell...even you
>>> or I can smell it, no problem. The ketones smell really sweet when someone
>>> is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek! Dogs often will start
>>> to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their human
>>> when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for
>>> alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so easy
>>> for them to smell. What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the lows,
>>> though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the harder to
>>> catch lows!
> 
>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting dogs
>>> for diabetics. I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a whole
>>> different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone knows
>>> more about the dogs for diabetics.
> 
>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe
>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case. The dogs
>>> will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be able
>>> to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they are
>>> driving. (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!) A dog
>>> may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're
>>> low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain function
>>> declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all kinds of
>>> errors. All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public access
>>> and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly
>>> recognized service dogs.
> 
>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none
>>> other than the nearby GDB. It's a good career change. Often a dog that
>>> won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog. I'm sure you all
>>> know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides
>>> because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained
>>> glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a wonderful
>>> way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and postpone or
>>> even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes
>>> complications. I think this is great as long as it's done well, ethically,
>>> safely, etc!
> 
>>> Dogs rock. It's people I sometimes wonder about. ;) j/k (sort of!)
> 
>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please
> 
>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.
>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog. I'm remembering
>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon? Of course the dog wouldn't
>>>> have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to the
>>>> guy's medical condition.
> 
> 
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> 
>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>>  FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future
> 
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> 
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> 
> -- 
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
> FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
> 
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> 
> 
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