[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

Sat Nov 10 00:45:05 UTC 2012

I saw a woman in an electric wheelchair coming off the bus the other day.  Before she came off though, came a small dog in front of her.  

I asked her what kind of dog it was, and she told me, rudely I might add, that it was a service dog.  

I told her that I had a guide dog and was applying for another so I understood.  I also told her that I had never seen such a small dog be a service dog, and couldn't see the dog very well, and again asked what breed it was.

She curtly told me it was a beagle and went on her way.

I've never heard of a beagle being used a service dog.  But there are a lot of things I no nothing about.

Jenny
On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Melissa R Green wrote:

> I know a person who ordered a harness from canada, and got a a school to certify her pet dog as a service dog.  I did a search online and you can buy a harness.  My trainer and I also did a search over the phone and she was surprised that harnesses are being sold online.
> this person might be ledgit.  But there are those who aren't ledgit.  Dar brings up a good question.  How does a blind person handle a situation like this?
> Especially, if anyone can by a harness or a vest online.  Like the person I spoke of in the beginning of my message.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: d m gina
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!
> 
> Hello,
> yes it does matter that the person have some kind of proof their dog is
> a service dog.
> What does happen when I take a stand because their dog bit mine and I
> would press charges, who wins there, I have my card, I have the collar
> that says seeing eye, I have a leash that says seeing eye, and I have
> the harness that says seeing eye.
> What makes me angry is Joe blow comes in with his dog only a collar,
> and he gets in, where I have to have my dog dressed in its outfit to
> work him and I am proud of this.
> I am just asking from a blind persons view I wouldn't know if the
> person was telling the truth or not.
> I for the most part bind my own business, unless I hear dogs groweling
> because they don't like set dog.
> Who would I stand up for, if both persons claim they have service dogs.
> I walk with no shame at all, that my dog was trained, I don't have to
> studder and walk around the issue.
> As what happened over the weekend.
> I asked my husband if he knew this person and he said no, he couldn't
> even remember who the person was that had the dog.
> It is just interesting to me, to learn as working with nagdu I want to
> help spread the good of this organization and can't do well if I don't
> know the exact steps to take, when I can't even tell if a dog is a
> service dog or not.
> Oh well, I will stay a happy camper, work my dog, and just be the Dar I know.
> I will let others decide what is good and what isn't.
> My specialtys can be used for other organizations.
> It is ok for me to say I couldn't tell if the set dog is a service dog or not.
> As long as I take care of me that is all that matters.
> We the team are doing quite well, three months into the program from
> seeing eye.
> he rocked at the convention, keeping himself as a little gentleman should.
> I did use the gentle leader at the dining room table so he wouldn't try
> to dive for food.
> One time he dove for a peace of paper, as I did ask the waitress what
> he was trying to go for.
> he thought it was food loll.
> I understand, I didn't bring his food so he had to wait until he got
> home he thought smile.
> the little bowl I took I was starting to wonder if the two cups of food
> would fit.
> It did, and I was pleased.
> the more we are a team the better.
> he is starting to remember the persons car or van we travel in, and
> that is good.
> We went threw a parking lot, on our own where he found the correct car
> on his own.
> The driver and the grocery guy walked ahead.
> I am so proud of this boy, I could write forever.
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> Original message:
>> Dar,
>> If I read your post right, you are concerned with the fact that someone
>> brings a dog into a place where you're at.  You are totally blind and are
>> worried about if that dog will scare the crap out of you - it growls
>> menacinginly at your dog or it actually tries to attack your dog.  Is this
>> correct?
> 
>> I hear you on this and your concerns are very valid.  I've been a guide dog
>> user for a very long time and have been the target of several attacks on my
>> dogs over the years.  My limited vision doesn't always see that there's a
>> menacing dog nearby but I'll hear it if it snarls at my dog.  It does scare
>> the crap out of me.
> 
>> What I find is that many people don't care if their dog is socialized for
>> public access - I'm talking about pets.  People don't bother to train their
>> dogs to walk nice on a leash. In earlier times, my dogs have been accosted
>> by nasty pets that are not under control by their humans.  Now that same
>> problem remains the same only now there are people who claim hidden
>> disability and their dog is a service dog.  They may really have a
>> disability but they do not know that they have standards that their dog must
>> adhere to.  the humans don't give a rat's behind if their dog bothers a
>> working guide dog or service dog walking along doing its job.  This is a
>> huge problem in the city where people have to walk their dogs and they have
>> all these little ankle biters.
> 
>> Now, add to this mix the past lax rules of ADA which allowed for anything
>> someone called a "service animal".  The owners have had no training on
>> proper ettiquete with having a dog in public where pets aren't allowed. It
>> has taken us too many years - 20 years - to finally tighten up the ADA
>> rules.  The horse is out of the barn and now we want to shut the door.
>> Well, too late now - it's out.  And there are problems for us with
>> litgitimate guide and service dogs that actually are trained to perform a
>> task to mitigate our disabilities.  And there's no real way to stop the
>> abuse of ADA.  The ADA prevents this by not allowing the having to show
>> proof via ID cards, vests, whatever.  This won't work anyway because people
>> can always make IDs or buy vests on the Internet.
> 
>> I think this all boils down to educating businesses to the ADA and it's
>> rules concerning service dogs.  We have to educate them to know that they
>> are within their rights to kick out individuals who do not control their
>> dogs properly.  They have to realize that they have this right and will not
>> be sued.  If they are, they think they'll lose and that will cost them lots
>> of money.  Business owners are afraid of violating the ADA and put up with
>> the problem children.  And, of course, there are those business people who
>> don't care about ADA and try to deny us our rights of access.
> 
>> A vest or ID doesn't make a dog a real service dog and it really doesn't
>> make sense to rail on that issue.  We really need to deal with the HUGE
>> issue of ill behaved dogs in public and what can we do about that issue.
> 
>> BTW, hope the new dog is working out well for you.
> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a
>> need for a guide dog!
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says
>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a
>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on
>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just
>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our
>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his
>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing
>> thanks,
>> Original message:
>>> Hi gang,
> 
>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some
>>> questions. There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs and
>>> even owner-trainers. They range from the rather large and very
>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer
>>> programs to owner-trained dogs. d4d is an ADI member program. ADI is the
>>> equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some of the
>>> smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are
>>> buyer-beware. Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of
>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long and
>>> many competent people have decided to train their own dogs. That can be a
>>> just fine option, too. Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses
>>> fairly similar standards. The dogs are trained to alert their person when
>>> the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is at
>>> least 80). If the dog
>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too
>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help
>>> themselves raise their blood glucose. This is especially critical when the
>>> diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep.
>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". Their
>>> numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and are
>>> dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if "awake"
>>> in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't think
>>> straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and that's
>>> it. Very sad and scary. The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle is
>>> quite long...multiple hours. A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I want
>>> to say about 90 minutes or so. This means that the dog is mostly awake and
>>> can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at many
>>> different points
>>> throughout the night. The dogs are generally taught to alert to the lows
>>> and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to smell...even you
>>> or I can smell it, no problem. The ketones smell really sweet when someone
>>> is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek! Dogs often will start
>>> to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their human
>>> when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for
>>> alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so easy
>>> for them to smell. What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the lows,
>>> though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the harder to
>>> catch lows!
> 
>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting dogs
>>> for diabetics. I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a whole
>>> different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone knows
>>> more about the dogs for diabetics.
> 
>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe
>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case. The dogs
>>> will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be able
>>> to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they are
>>> driving. (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!) A dog
>>> may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're
>>> low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain function
>>> declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all kinds of
>>> errors. All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public access
>>> and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly
>>> recognized service dogs.
> 
>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none
>>> other than the nearby GDB. It's a good career change. Often a dog that
>>> won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog. I'm sure you all
>>> know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides
>>> because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained
>>> glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a wonderful
>>> way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and postpone or
>>> even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes
>>> complications. I think this is great as long as it's done well, ethically,
>>> safely, etc!
> 
>>> Dogs rock. It's people I sometimes wonder about. ;) j/k (sort of!)
> 
>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please
> 
>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.
>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog. I'm remembering
>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon? Of course the dog wouldn't
>>>> have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to the
>>>> guy's medical condition.
> 
> 
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> 
>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>>  FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future
> 
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> 
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> 
> -- 
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
> FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
> 
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> 
> 
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