[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a need for a guide dog!

[d m gina]

Ok that is fine,
I will keep watching to see what happens down the road, when the 
neighborhood dogs and friends train all dogs and we don't have to ask 
questions.
I felt I was being fare, and I will keep smiling.
I will mind my own business, and move rite along.
As long as I know in my heart I was trying to stand up for nagdu's 
polocy because I believe in it, I did the best I knew how.
I have had to come up with so much paper work to get done for me, I was 
in question why it wasn't for us.
Thanks so much,

Original message:
> BTW Dar,

> It really doesn't matter whether yur dog came from a program or not, or 
> for that matter, whether theirs did or not. If your dog was attacked 
> and injured, whether the other dog was a service dog or not, that 
> person's right to be accompanied by a service dog is not absolute. If 
> his dog attacked your dog and injured it, that dog was not under 
> adequate control and, in disrupting the regular business of the public 
> accommodation, could be legitimately removed. The dog, that is, not the 
> person. Moreover, That person would still be responsible for the 
> injury, service dog or not. So I fail to see your point here.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



> On Nov 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Melissa R Green <graduate56 at juno.com> wrote:

>> I know a person who ordered a harness from canada, and got a a school 
>> to certify her pet dog as a service dog.  I did a search online and you 
>> can buy a harness.  My trainer and I also did a search over the phone 
>> and she was surprised that harnesses are being sold online.
>> this person might be ledgit.  But there are those who aren't ledgit.  
>> Dar brings up a good question.  How does a blind person handle a 
>> situation like this?
>> Especially, if anyone can by a harness or a vest online.  Like the 
>> person I spoke of in the beginning of my message.

>> -----Original Message----- From: d m gina
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:06 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are 
>> preventing a need for a guide dog!

>> Hello,
>> yes it does matter that the person have some kind of proof their dog is
>> a service dog.
>> What does happen when I take a stand because their dog bit mine and I
>> would press charges, who wins there, I have my card, I have the collar
>> that says seeing eye, I have a leash that says seeing eye, and I have
>> the harness that says seeing eye.
>> What makes me angry is Joe blow comes in with his dog only a collar,
>> and he gets in, where I have to have my dog dressed in its outfit to
>> work him and I am proud of this.
>> I am just asking from a blind persons view I wouldn't know if the
>> person was telling the truth or not.
>> I for the most part bind my own business, unless I hear dogs groweling
>> because they don't like set dog.
>> Who would I stand up for, if both persons claim they have service dogs.
>> I walk with no shame at all, that my dog was trained, I don't have to
>> studder and walk around the issue.
>> As what happened over the weekend.
>> I asked my husband if he knew this person and he said no, he couldn't
>> even remember who the person was that had the dog.
>> It is just interesting to me, to learn as working with nagdu I want to
>> help spread the good of this organization and can't do well if I don't
>> know the exact steps to take, when I can't even tell if a dog is a
>> service dog or not.
>> Oh well, I will stay a happy camper, work my dog, and just be the Dar I know.
>> I will let others decide what is good and what isn't.
>> My specialtys can be used for other organizations.
>> It is ok for me to say I couldn't tell if the set dog is a service dog or not.
>> As long as I take care of me that is all that matters.
>> We the team are doing quite well, three months into the program from
>> seeing eye.
>> he rocked at the convention, keeping himself as a little gentleman should.
>> I did use the gentle leader at the dining room table so he wouldn't try
>> to dive for food.
>> One time he dove for a peace of paper, as I did ask the waitress what
>> he was trying to go for.
>> he thought it was food loll.
>> I understand, I didn't bring his food so he had to wait until he got
>> home he thought smile.
>> the little bowl I took I was starting to wonder if the two cups of food
>> would fit.
>> It did, and I was pleased.
>> the more we are a team the better.
>> he is starting to remember the persons car or van we travel in, and
>> that is good.
>> We went threw a parking lot, on our own where he found the correct car
>> on his own.
>> The driver and the grocery guy walked ahead.
>> I am so proud of this boy, I could write forever.
>> Thanks for asking.

>> Original message:
>>> Dar,
>>> If I read your post right, you are concerned with the fact that someone
>>> brings a dog into a place where you're at.  You are totally blind and are
>>> worried about if that dog will scare the crap out of you - it growls
>>> menacinginly at your dog or it actually tries to attack your dog.  Is this
>>> correct?

>>> I hear you on this and your concerns are very valid.  I've been a guide dog
>>> user for a very long time and have been the target of several attacks on my
>>> dogs over the years.  My limited vision doesn't always see that there's a
>>> menacing dog nearby but I'll hear it if it snarls at my dog.  It does scare
>>> the crap out of me.

>>> What I find is that many people don't care if their dog is socialized for
>>> public access - I'm talking about pets.  People don't bother to train their
>>> dogs to walk nice on a leash. In earlier times, my dogs have been accosted
>>> by nasty pets that are not under control by their humans.  Now that same
>>> problem remains the same only now there are people who claim hidden
>>> disability and their dog is a service dog.  They may really have a
>>> disability but they do not know that they have standards that their dog must
>>> adhere to.  the humans don't give a rat's behind if their dog bothers a
>>> working guide dog or service dog walking along doing its job.  This is a
>>> huge problem in the city where people have to walk their dogs and they have
>>> all these little ankle biters.

>>> Now, add to this mix the past lax rules of ADA which allowed for anything
>>> someone called a "service animal".  The owners have had no training on
>>> proper ettiquete with having a dog in public where pets aren't allowed. It
>>> has taken us too many years - 20 years - to finally tighten up the ADA
>>> rules.  The horse is out of the barn and now we want to shut the door.
>>> Well, too late now - it's out.  And there are problems for us with
>>> litgitimate guide and service dogs that actually are trained to perform a
>>> task to mitigate our disabilities.  And there's no real way to stop the
>>> abuse of ADA.  The ADA prevents this by not allowing the having to show
>>> proof via ID cards, vests, whatever.  This won't work anyway because people
>>> can always make IDs or buy vests on the Internet.

>>> I think this all boils down to educating businesses to the ADA and it's
>>> rules concerning service dogs.  We have to educate them to know that they
>>> are within their rights to kick out individuals who do not control their
>>> dogs properly.  They have to realize that they have this right and will not
>>> be sued.  If they are, they think they'll lose and that will cost them lots
>>> of money.  Business owners are afraid of violating the ADA and put up with
>>> the problem children.  And, of course, there are those business people who
>>> don't care about ADA and try to deny us our rights of access.

>>> A vest or ID doesn't make a dog a real service dog and it really doesn't
>>> make sense to rail on that issue.  We really need to deal with the HUGE
>>> issue of ill behaved dogs in public and what can we do about that issue.

>>> BTW, hope the new dog is working out well for you.

>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:50 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are preventing a
>>> need for a guide dog!


>>> Hello,
>>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says
>>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a
>>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on
>>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just
>>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our
>>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his
>>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing
>>> thanks,
>>> Original message:
>>>> Hi gang,

>>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some
>>>> questions. There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs and
>>>> even owner-trainers. They range from the rather large and very
>>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer
>>>> programs to owner-trained dogs. d4d is an ADI member program. ADI is the
>>>> equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some of the
>>>> smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are
>>>> buyer-beware. Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of
>>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long and
>>>> many competent people have decided to train their own dogs. That can be a
>>>> just fine option, too. Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses
>>>> fairly similar standards. The dogs are trained to alert their person when
>>>> the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is at
>>>> least 80). If the dog
>>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too
>>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help
>>>> themselves raise their blood glucose. This is especially critical when the
>>>> diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep.
>>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed". Their
>>>> numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and are
>>>> dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if "awake"
>>>> in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't think
>>>> straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and that's
>>>> it. Very sad and scary. The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle is
>>>> quite long...multiple hours. A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I want
>>>> to say about 90 minutes or so. This means that the dog is mostly awake and
>>>> can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at many
>>>> different points
>>>> throughout the night. The dogs are generally taught to alert to the lows
>>>> and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to smell...even you
>>>> or I can smell it, no problem. The ketones smell really sweet when someone
>>>> is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek! Dogs often will start
>>>> to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their human
>>>> when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for
>>>> alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so easy
>>>> for them to smell. What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the lows,
>>>> though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the harder to
>>>> catch lows!

>>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting dogs
>>>> for diabetics. I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a whole
>>>> different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone knows
>>>> more about the dogs for diabetics.

>>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe
>>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case. The dogs
>>>> will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be able
>>>> to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they are
>>>> driving. (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!) A dog
>>>> may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're
>>>> low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain function
>>>> declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all kinds of
>>>> errors. All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public access
>>>> and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly
>>>> recognized service dogs.

>>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none
>>>> other than the nearby GDB. It's a good career change. Often a dog that
>>>> won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog. I'm sure you all
>>>> know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides
>>>> because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained
>>>> glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a wonderful
>>>> way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and postpone or
>>>> even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes
>>>> complications. I think this is great as long as it's done well, ethically,
>>>> safely, etc!

>>>> Dogs rock. It's people I sometimes wonder about. ;) j/k (sort of!)

>>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director




>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please

>>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.
>>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog. I'm remembering
>>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon? Of course the dog wouldn't
>>>>> have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to the
>>>>> guy's medical condition.


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>>> --
>>> --Dar
>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>  FB: dmgina
>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>> every saint has a past
>>> every sinner has a future

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>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>> FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future

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-- 
--Dar
skype: dmgina23
  FB: dmgina
www.twitter.com/dmgina
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future