[nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing a need for a guide dog!

Jenny Keller jlperdue3 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 13 09:24:05 UTC 2012 

I agree whole heartedly.  

I know we don't have to justify our service dog, and I wasn't asking her to do so.  I had just commented on its size only, and since I couldn't see the dog well, I couldn't identify the breed.

I'm sure though, that she catches a lot of flack about it being a service dog though.  

People think of a service dog as a dog for only the blind.  We all know that's not so.  So she's probably tired of explaining herself and figured I was just another person questioning her dog.

Jenny
On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:

> Two words for you Jenny. "Aunt Meanie".
> That's who this woman is. Not your problem and had nothing to do with you.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing a need for a guide dog!
> 
> Hi Jenny,
> Sounds like that woman was in a bad mood.  Maybe in pain but that doesn't
> excuse rude behavior.
> 
> People use all kinds of dogs for service dogs.  Many in power chairs can use
> a small dog that fits on their laps and they jump of to perform a task.
> There was a local woman here with a Pomeranian as a service dog.  I once was
> at a meeting where there was a woman with a teacup Yorkie - very cute and
> very well behaved. I am surpised about the Beagle.  those are usually pretty
> vocal with baying instead of a bark and hard to housebreak.  But individuals
> from any breed can vary from what one thinks when you see a particular
> breed.  There can be quite mellow Beagles and rowdy ones.  There's a
> visually impaired wheelchair user at our blind center who has a service dog
> that is a Poodle mix - small one.  It is the kind one thinks about when you
> think "ankle biter" or that yaps constantly.  Not this dog!  He's so mellow
> and nice and gets along well with the guide dogs.  You'd never know that
> little dog was even in the room!
> 
> Hope all is well with you and your foot is healing nicely.
> 
> Lyn and Landon
> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs arepreventing a
> need for a guide dog!
> 
> 
>> I saw a woman in an electric wheelchair coming off the bus the other day.
>> Before she came off though, came a small dog in front of her.
>> 
>> I asked her what kind of dog it was, and she told me, rudely I might add,
>> that it was a service dog.
>> 
>> I told her that I had a guide dog and was applying for another so I
>> understood.  I also told her that I had never seen such a small dog be a
>> service dog, and couldn't see the dog very well, and again asked what
>> breed it was.
>> 
>> She curtly told me it was a beagle and went on her way.
>> 
>> I've never heard of a beagle being used a service dog.  But there are a
>> lot of things I no nothing about.
>> 
>> Jenny
>> On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Melissa R Green wrote:
>> 
>>> I know a person who ordered a harness from canada, and got a a school to
>>> certify her pet dog as a service dog.  I did a search online and you can
>>> buy a harness.  My trainer and I also did a search over the phone and she
>>> was surprised that harnesses are being sold online.
>>> this person might be ledgit.  But there are those who aren't ledgit.  Dar
>>> brings up a good question.  How does a blind person handle a situation
>>> like this?
>>> Especially, if anyone can by a harness or a vest online.  Like the person
>>> I spoke of in the beginning of my message.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: d m gina
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:06 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are
>>> preventing a need for a guide dog!
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> yes it does matter that the person have some kind of proof their dog is
>>> a service dog.
>>> What does happen when I take a stand because their dog bit mine and I
>>> would press charges, who wins there, I have my card, I have the collar
>>> that says seeing eye, I have a leash that says seeing eye, and I have
>>> the harness that says seeing eye.
>>> What makes me angry is Joe blow comes in with his dog only a collar,
>>> and he gets in, where I have to have my dog dressed in its outfit to
>>> work him and I am proud of this.
>>> I am just asking from a blind persons view I wouldn't know if the
>>> person was telling the truth or not.
>>> I for the most part bind my own business, unless I hear dogs groweling
>>> because they don't like set dog.
>>> Who would I stand up for, if both persons claim they have service dogs.
>>> I walk with no shame at all, that my dog was trained, I don't have to
>>> studder and walk around the issue.
>>> As what happened over the weekend.
>>> I asked my husband if he knew this person and he said no, he couldn't
>>> even remember who the person was that had the dog.
>>> It is just interesting to me, to learn as working with nagdu I want to
>>> help spread the good of this organization and can't do well if I don't
>>> know the exact steps to take, when I can't even tell if a dog is a
>>> service dog or not.
>>> Oh well, I will stay a happy camper, work my dog, and just be the Dar I
>>> know.
>>> I will let others decide what is good and what isn't.
>>> My specialtys can be used for other organizations.
>>> It is ok for me to say I couldn't tell if the set dog is a service dog or
>>> not.
>>> As long as I take care of me that is all that matters.
>>> We the team are doing quite well, three months into the program from
>>> seeing eye.
>>> he rocked at the convention, keeping himself as a little gentleman
>>> should.
>>> I did use the gentle leader at the dining room table so he wouldn't try
>>> to dive for food.
>>> One time he dove for a peace of paper, as I did ask the waitress what
>>> he was trying to go for.
>>> he thought it was food loll.
>>> I understand, I didn't bring his food so he had to wait until he got
>>> home he thought smile.
>>> the little bowl I took I was starting to wonder if the two cups of food
>>> would fit.
>>> It did, and I was pleased.
>>> the more we are a team the better.
>>> he is starting to remember the persons car or van we travel in, and
>>> that is good.
>>> We went threw a parking lot, on our own where he found the correct car
>>> on his own.
>>> The driver and the grocery guy walked ahead.
>>> I am so proud of this boy, I could write forever.
>>> Thanks for asking.
>>> 
>>> Original message:
>>>> Dar,
>>>> If I read your post right, you are concerned with the fact that someone
>>>> brings a dog into a place where you're at.  You are totally blind and
>>>> are
>>>> worried about if that dog will scare the crap out of you - it growls
>>>> menacinginly at your dog or it actually tries to attack your dog.  Is
>>>> this
>>>> correct?
>>> 
>>>> I hear you on this and your concerns are very valid.  I've been a guide
>>>> dog
>>>> user for a very long time and have been the target of several attacks on
>>>> my
>>>> dogs over the years.  My limited vision doesn't always see that there's
>>>> a
>>>> menacing dog nearby but I'll hear it if it snarls at my dog.  It does
>>>> scare
>>>> the crap out of me.
>>> 
>>>> What I find is that many people don't care if their dog is socialized
>>>> for
>>>> public access - I'm talking about pets.  People don't bother to train
>>>> their
>>>> dogs to walk nice on a leash. In earlier times, my dogs have been
>>>> accosted
>>>> by nasty pets that are not under control by their humans.  Now that same
>>>> problem remains the same only now there are people who claim hidden
>>>> disability and their dog is a service dog.  They may really have a
>>>> disability but they do not know that they have standards that their dog
>>>> must
>>>> adhere to.  the humans don't give a rat's behind if their dog bothers a
>>>> working guide dog or service dog walking along doing its job.  This is a
>>>> huge problem in the city where people have to walk their dogs and they
>>>> have
>>>> all these little ankle biters.
>>> 
>>>> Now, add to this mix the past lax rules of ADA which allowed for
>>>> anything
>>>> someone called a "service animal".  The owners have had no training on
>>>> proper ettiquete with having a dog in public where pets aren't allowed.
>>>> It
>>>> has taken us too many years - 20 years - to finally tighten up the ADA
>>>> rules.  The horse is out of the barn and now we want to shut the door.
>>>> Well, too late now - it's out.  And there are problems for us with
>>>> litgitimate guide and service dogs that actually are trained to perform
>>>> a
>>>> task to mitigate our disabilities.  And there's no real way to stop the
>>>> abuse of ADA.  The ADA prevents this by not allowing the having to show
>>>> proof via ID cards, vests, whatever.  This won't work anyway because
>>>> people
>>>> can always make IDs or buy vests on the Internet.
>>> 
>>>> I think this all boils down to educating businesses to the ADA and it's
>>>> rules concerning service dogs.  We have to educate them to know that
>>>> they
>>>> are within their rights to kick out individuals who do not control their
>>>> dogs properly.  They have to realize that they have this right and will
>>>> not
>>>> be sued.  If they are, they think they'll lose and that will cost them
>>>> lots
>>>> of money.  Business owners are afraid of violating the ADA and put up
>>>> with
>>>> the problem children.  And, of course, there are those business people
>>>> who
>>>> don't care about ADA and try to deny us our rights of access.
>>> 
>>>> A vest or ID doesn't make a dog a real service dog and it really doesn't
>>>> make sense to rail on that issue.  We really need to deal with the HUGE
>>>> issue of ill behaved dogs in public and what can we do about that issue.
>>> 
>>>> BTW, hope the new dog is working out well for you.
>>> 
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 7:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diabetic alert dogs and how alert dogs are
>>>> preventing a
>>>> need for a guide dog!
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Thanks for sharing, and yes even my guide lets me know if I am to low.
>>>> My question never got answered for me to be satisfied.
>>>> As a total, and this strange dog comes into play where the person says
>>>> it is a diabetic dog, nothing on the dog to indicate that the dog is a
>>>> service dog, just a person coming into the room with a chain collar on
>>>> dog claiming that it is a diabetic dog.
>>>> No coat of any kind no nothing.
>>>> So if a total was trying to make sure that we didn't have anyone just
>>>> bringing in their pet how would we know.
>>>> It is obvious we didn't know at this convention.
>>>> We as guide dog users are trying to make sure we can keep working our
>>>> dogs for as long as possible with out any more rules to the game.
>>>> Where I am not impressed that my neighbor can put a collar on his
>>>> shepherd and claim it is a service dog a diabetic dog.
>>>> I hope I made myself clear this time.
>>>> Now my neighbor isn't claiming this, just follow the thread of writing
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Hi gang,
>>> 
>>>>> I will only speak to diabetic alert dogs, since there seem to be some
>>>>> questions. There are numerous programs that train diabetic alert dogs
>>>>> and
>>>>> even owner-trainers. They range from the rather large and very
>>>>> well-established Dogs 4 Diabetics (d4d) in Concord, CA to smaller/newer
>>>>> programs to owner-trained dogs. d4d is an ADI member program. ADI is
>>>>> the
>>>>> equivalent of IGDF, so d4d is very highly regarded in general. Some of
>>>>> the
>>>>> smaller/newer programs do a better job than others, so those are
>>>>> buyer-beware. Really, though, diabetic alerting is largely a matter of
>>>>> fairly straightforward scent training...so it doesn't take that long
>>>>> and
>>>>> many competent people have decided to train their own dogs. That can be
>>>>> a
>>>>> just fine option, too. Almost everyone from d4d to owner-trainer uses
>>>>> fairly similar standards. The dogs are trained to alert their person
>>>>> when
>>>>> the person's blood glucose begins to drop too low (60-70, normal is at
>>>>> least 80). If the dog
>>>>> can tell the person who is at 65, the person should not be too
>>>>> incapacitated at that point to do the things they need to do to help
>>>>> themselves raise their blood glucose. This is especially critical when
>>>>> the
>>>>> diabetic (usually type 1 diabetic, btw, but not ALWAYS) is asleep.
>>>>> Diabetics are at serious risk of a phenomenon called "Dead in Bed".
>>>>> Their
>>>>> numbers get too low while they sleep and they slip into a coma and are
>>>>> dead or confused and unable to help themselves and can die even if
>>>>> "awake"
>>>>> in the morning...no sugar is reaching their brain and so they can't
>>>>> think
>>>>> straight to drink juice or swallow glucose tablets or whatever and
>>>>> that's
>>>>> it. Very sad and scary. The beauty here is that a human's sleep cycle
>>>>> is
>>>>> quite long...multiple hours. A dog's sleep cycle is FAR shorter...I
>>>>> want
>>>>> to say about 90 minutes or so. This means that the dog is mostly awake
>>>>> and
>>>>> can smell the low on their person and wake them up to tell them at many
>>>>> different points
>>>>> throughout the night. The dogs are generally taught to alert to the
>>>>> lows
>>>>> and not really the highs because the highs are SO easy to smell...even
>>>>> you
>>>>> or I can smell it, no problem. The ketones smell really sweet when
>>>>> someone
>>>>> is running high, so the diabetic's breath will reek! Dogs often will
>>>>> start
>>>>> to alert the highs once they get that their job is to tell their human
>>>>> when they're smelling funny, but dogs who are rewarded too often for
>>>>> alerting to high often start to only alert to high because it's so easy
>>>>> for them to smell. What we really NEED the dog alerting to is the lows,
>>>>> though, so can't let the dogs get lazy and stop smelling for the harder
>>>>> to
>>>>> catch lows!
>>> 
>>>>> Long story short - there are very legitimate glucose level alerting
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> for diabetics. I have no idea if the St. Bernard was one - that's a
>>>>> whole
>>>>> different ball of wax that I won't touch - but at least now everyone
>>>>> knows
>>>>> more about the dogs for diabetics.
>>> 
>>>>> Oh, I should mention since I think my email makes it sound like maybe
>>>>> these dogs only need to be home use - that is far from the case. The
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> will also do things like ride close enough to someone driving and be
>>>>> able
>>>>> to alert the person in case their sugar goes out of whack while they
>>>>> are
>>>>> driving. (I'm sure everyone can see how this is a useful service!) A
>>>>> dog
>>>>> may sit under a programmer's desk at work and alert them that they're
>>>>> low...big bonus for everyone since when sugar goes low, brain function
>>>>> declines and suddenly you've got a programmer probably making all kinds
>>>>> of
>>>>> errors. All sorts of things like that, so the dogs do need public
>>>>> access
>>>>> and protection just like guide dogs and other kinds of more commonly
>>>>> recognized service dogs.
>>> 
>>>>> Cool to note is that d4d actually gets a number of their dogs from none
>>>>> other than the nearby GDB. It's a good career change. Often a dog that
>>>>> won't make the cut as a guide can make a great alert dog. I'm sure you
>>>>> all
>>>>> know how big the percentage is of guide dog handlers who need guides
>>>>> because of diabetes complications, so actually getting a well-trained
>>>>> glucose level alert dog into the hands of a young diabetic is a
>>>>> wonderful
>>>>> way to help them keep their numbers MUCH better controlled and postpone
>>>>> or
>>>>> even prevent that person from ever needing a Guide due to diabetes
>>>>> complications. I think this is great as long as it's done well,
>>>>> ethically,
>>>>> safely, etc!
>>> 
>>>>> Dogs rock. It's people I sometimes wonder about. ;) j/k (sort of!)
>>> 
>>>>> Dailyah Rudek
>>>>> The ProBoneO Program, Director
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 4:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] In question please
>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, there are dogs that can alert to changes in blood sugar levels.
>>>>>> There is even a program that trains this type of dog. I'm remembering
>>>>>> it's in the northwest, Washington or Oregon? Of course the dog
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> have had to come from this or any program to be trained to alert to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> guy's medical condition.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> --
>>> --Dar
>>> skype: dmgina23
>>> FB: dmgina
>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>> every saint has a past
>>> every sinner has a future
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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