[nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
Robert Hooper
hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
Tue Nov 13 17:41:52 UTC 2012
The only time Bailey shows discomfort is if he is in pain. A couple weeks ago, I took him to the vet because he was very drooly. An x-ray later, we decided that it was nausea. However, he ate, drank, relieved, and acted normally, showing no signs that he was in any discomfort. The only other time he shows stress is after a correction or rework, and I think I would be the only one capable of picking up on the fact that his anxiety level is a bit higher.
It could be that your dog doesn't show stress; however, it could also be that your dog has a much higher tolerance level for potential stressors and doesn't get as stressed as other dogs. I think that Bailey is in this camp.
Robert Hooper
Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of Neuroscience
572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
Columbus, Ohio 43202
(740) 856-8195
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:22 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
Hi everyone,
Ramona, my dog has never been excited to see her harness. She enjoys to work, but she does not jump up and down or anything at the prospect of working. I'm glad I'm not the only one!
I have been working my dog for four and a half years, and I still have trouble figuring out when she is stressed. I always thought she was one of those rare dogs who doesn't show stress easily. But I don't know. Like Julie, I have discovered that reworking things and turning work into a positive experience has helped us immensely. That's all I can do. I've told the trainers I work with many times that if Brie is stressed, I just don't see it. She is always the same amount of stubbern. She may have gotten more sleepy over the past couple years and more stubbern, but I think this is an age thing.
So... She gets her stress out in barking and chewing. I hope I don't sound crazy. I know she gets stressed, but she doesn't show it in those obvious ways. Does anyone else experience that?
On 11/13/12, Robert Hooper <hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
> Well, I would say the "line" is crossed when the stress becomes unhealthy.
> For example, did you feel as though he weren't enjoying your trip? Did
> you feel that his anxiety was of the unhealthy variety? Did he seem
> "saved" from working when you pulled off the harness as opposed to
> merely relaxed or happy? If so, then I would say that you know where
> the line is. I am trying to avoid specific or arbitrary suggestions,
> as each dog is different. Only you can decide whether to cease that
> type of work entirely or continue that type of work with
> modifications, etc. I am trying to help you define the "line", so you
> can formulate a plan specific to you and Monty. The idea is getting
> him to a place where he is ultimately enjoying his work, not dreading
> it. If you felt that he dreaded his work during your trip, then I
> would at least try to modify when or how he works so as to relieve him
> of some of the burden. If that isn't enough, then you may have to
> cease this sort of work altogether. So, the definition of where the
> line is, for me at
> least:
> The point at which a service animal begins to experience more stress
> than what is warranted or normally experienced by the task it is being
> asked to perform; this point is reached when the aforementioned
> service animal seems to no longer enjoy the task, or, due to stress,
> cannot as efficiently or safely complete the task. At this point,
> there exists an ethical obligation to return the animal's stress to a
> healthy level, either via work reduction or the modification of the
> task to accommodate the animal's anxieties and stressors.
>
> I hope this helps a bit.
> Sincerely,
> Robert Hooper
> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
> The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of
> Neuroscience
> 572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
> Columbus, Ohio 43202
> (740) 856-8195
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
>
> Robert,
>
> That's it exactly. a bit of stress is a good thing. If Monty didn't
> dance around in circles with anticipation when I picked up his harness
> I'd be worried. I also like him to be a bit wary of cars, drop offs
> and construction sites. It keeps him alert, on his toes and ready to
> do what he needs to do. If he had zero stress when working he'd be
> bored and falling asleep on the street corner. Okay the falling
> asleep is a bit of an exaggeration. I view it like the stress a
> person might feel before the take the field for the football playoffs
> or something. Your pumped up, ready to go, but with just a touch of anxiety. that's normal.
>
> The line between that normal, healthy anticipation variety of stress
> and the other variety of anxious, nervous unhealthy stress is a fine one.
> I'm hoping folks here have some insight into defining just where that
> line is. and maybe more importantly what to do when your on the wrong
> side of it.
>
> Thoughts?
> Julie
>
>
> On 11/12/2012 2:14 PM, Robert Hooper wrote:
>> Hello Julie:
>>
>> I will first speak to your inquiry regarding "how much stress is too
>> much stress".
>> I, like most everyone on this list, view the human-dog team as
>> exactly that--a team. Of course, there is a pack hierarchy, but when
>> the dog is in harness, the two are much closer to being equal members of the same team.
>> I say "almost" because I don't want to portray an unrealistic and
>> maudlin view of what a guide team is. Because we humans have the
>> greater skill in leadership and decision making, we will always (or
>> should always) assume the role of leader, even when working the dog.
>> However, think of yourself as a teacher, and remember that the dog is
>> a dynamic, living creature that can feel stress, pain, joy, etc.
>> Julie, I know that you know this, and thinking of a relationship in this way can help answer your question.
>> Because we don't view dogs as tools, we therefore know we have an
>> ethical obligation to their well-being. Thus, I wouldn't ask my dog
>> to work when doing so causes him unhealthy stress. Of course, some
>> level of stress is necessary and healthy for learning and work, but
>> there is a definite curve--that is, the benefits of stress increase
>> with stress only so far, and then they start going the other way.
>> We want our dogs to be happy and to enjoy their work; we don't want
>> to make them think that they are being forced to do anything against
>> their wills. They aren't slaves, they are companions, partners, and
>> family members--and if they aren't enjoying or taking pleasure from
>> their work, then I don't think one should continue pressing them to do it.
>> Julie: as you know Monty best, you can best determine what is making
>> him happy and what is making him anxious or stressed. If he loves his
>> normal work, or seems to respond to it in a manner normal for him,
>> then I would guess that he still enjoys it. If you are noticing that
>> this abnormal behavior is only occurring when you participate in
>> these conventions, meetings, etc., then you could probably conclude
>> that this amount of work is too stressful to be enjoyable to him.
>> Therefore, you can make other arrangements for him when you need to travel.
>> I want Bailey to enjoy his work--I know that there are probably days
>> when he doesn't enjoy it as much, or when he isn't as sharp as usual,
>> but so long as he enjoys it, and it isn't causing him undue stress, I
>> will gladly give him work to do. I know you will make the best
>> decision, as you have far more experience with dogs than I do. I do
>> hope that Monty continues to work well and happily for many more years.
>> Sincerely,
>> Robert Hooper
>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>> The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of
>> Neuroscience
>> 572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
>> Columbus, Ohio 43202
>> (740) 856-8195
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
>>
>> Thanks! Those are reactions to stress that I wouldn't have thought of.
>> It makes sense though. I like to go to bed early when I've had a
>> rough day.
>>
>> I think it's important, especially for the new handlers, to recognize
>> stress/anxiety at it's first signs. then the situation can be
>> managed or extra encouragement provided to the dog before the problem
>> escalates into a huge ordeal. I think knowing when your dog has had
>> enough and what to do about it is very important stuff.
>> Do the schools provide a seminar or something on noticing stress
>> signals from you dog? What about how to calm a stressed dog?
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/12/2012 11:35 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>> Sometimes, if we're away at a festival or convention, and Ben has
>>> worked from morning to night for a couple days, I can tell that he's
>>> wants a break. If we're out late, he starts looking toward the
>>> door, or turning forcefully towards our room.
>>> During class at TSE, on the weekend before the third week, he just
>>> shut down. He wouldn't get up when I called him. He tried to crawl
>>> under the bed and hide when I picked up his leash. It was very
>>> upsetting. But I learned then that his reaction to stress is to
>>> sleep. If I let him rest, leave him in peace for a while, he's back
>>> to his usual self.
>>> Tracy
>>>> I'm wondering how your dog's show that they are stressed and how
>>>> much is too much?
>>>>
>>>> a bit of background...a few months ago I went to an all day meeting
>>>> out of town. This involved about 8 hours of car travel there, an
>>>> overnight hotel stay, the all day meeting, another hotel stay and
>>>> the car ride home. Monty has done all of these sorts of things
>>>> before and since.
>>>> Before this weekend he showed few signs of stress and they were minor.
>>>> However for some reason still unknown to me Monty had a tough time
>>>> this particular weekend. His signs of stress included: looking at
>>>> everything incessantly, startling at noises, lip licking,
>>>> difficulty relaxing at relief breaks, shaking and pulling like a
>>>> crazed maniac in harness.
>>>>
>>>> For me his signs of stress were pretty high. If he had continued
>>>> at that level I would have stopped working him. We have struggled
>>>> off and on for the past few months with smaller episodes of stress/anxiety.
>>>> Overall things have improved dramatically. Occasionally he will do
>>>> the lip licking and the looking at everything, but he's not at a
>>>> level that I feel is risky to his or my health or safety.
>>>>
>>>> Recent messages to the list and my own situation caused me to think
>>>> about and ask the questions: How much is too much? What would
>>>> cause you to quit working a dog completely? What would cause you to
>>>> quit working a dog in a particular situation?
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.
>>>> net
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>> c
>>> o
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date:
>>> 11/12/12
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckey
>> e
>> mail.osu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.c
>> o
>> m
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date:
>> 11/12/12
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckeye
> mail.osu.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.c
> om
>
--
Julie McG
Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 3:16
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hooper.90%40buckeyemail.osu.edu
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list