[nagdu] stress, how much is too much?

Fri Nov 16 04:46:38 UTC 2012

Hello!

I will describe stress behaviors by three of my dogs. My dog Wendy was
always licking. When you told her to stop, she would stop licking whatever
it was but continued to lick the air. I didn't think much about it. However,
when I retired her, she stopped licking. So I decided it was her form of
relieving low-level stress. I've labeled it as low-level stresss, because
she always was willing to work and my safety was never in question. Indeed,
when Wendy did something exceptional or unusual, she expected extra praise.
To ensure she got it, she would sit down waiting for praise. One of these
times happened in the middle of a street. I had to convince her to finish
crossing the street. AS soon as we stepped up on the curb, she sat down
waiting for her praise. What a cool and insightful Dog!

My second example involved my first dog Mora. Mora loved her work. Every
time she heard me getting the harness, she'd come running. If I held the
harness at her level, she'd run right into it. If she had a stressful day
(which wasn't often), she'd throw up bowel in the middle of the night. Even
though she was always excited to go to work, during the summer of her
seventh year of work she started shaking while waiting for a bus or a train.
If this shaking had started during the winter, I might have ignored it
thinking she was cold. However, cold wasn't the issue in 95-degree weather.
Someone from Guiding Eyes came down and concurred with my diagnosis. Even
though he assured me that Mora was still guiding me safely, I retired her,
began using my cane, and applied for a new dog.

My final example involved by current dog's predecessor, sport. After two
years of work his enthusiasm began to wain. He started crossing the streets
in an unsafe manner, even crossing diagonally into parallel traffic. At
first, this happened on relatively quiet streets; so I wasn't always aware
of this until we reached the incorrect upcurb. And since, coincidentally,
this began shortly after the township had realigned some of the
intersections, I assumed that I had been lined up incorrectyly and given him
the "wrong" Signals. Then he started doing this on busy streets. Of course,
I realized this and put him back on track. When a trainer came down, Sport
actually demonstrated this behavior in front of her. (AS many of you know, a
dog seems to know when a trainer is around and often doesn't demonstrate the
behavior in question.) She took him back to the school and attempted to
correct this problem. The staff determined that Sport would perform
correctly if he were given a food reward at the beginning and end of each
block. I joked with the trainer that I'd wind up with a very obese dog
unless I carried his breakfast with me. Needless to say, I retired the dog
and brought him back home as a pet.

Of course, each dog is different. What stresses one dog may be stimulating
for another, and there are as many ways to respond to stressas there are
dogs. I hope this helps by giving you some other thoughts.

Toni

P.S. Regarding sniffing, I find my dogs sniff when they are bored. If their
in a new area or working around other dogs, they're so excited, they have no
time to sniff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:09 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?

Robert,

That's it exactly.  a bit of stress is a good thing.  If Monty didn't dance
around in circles with anticipation when I picked up his harness I'd be
worried.  I also like him to be a bit wary of cars, drop offs and
construction sites.  It keeps him alert, on his toes and ready to do what he
needs to do.  If he had zero stress when working he'd be bored and falling
asleep on the street corner.  Okay the falling asleep is a bit of an
exaggeration.  I view it like the stress a person might feel before the take
the field for the football playoffs or something.  Your pumped up, ready to
go, but with just a touch of anxiety.  that's normal.

The line between that normal, healthy anticipation variety of stress and the
other variety of anxious, nervous unhealthy stress is a fine one.  
I'm hoping folks here have some insight into defining just where that line
is.  and maybe more importantly what to do when your on the wrong side of
it.

Thoughts?
Julie

On 11/12/2012 2:14 PM, Robert Hooper wrote:
> Hello Julie:
>
> I will first speak to your inquiry regarding "how much stress is too much
stress".
> I, like most everyone on this list, view the human-dog team as exactly
that--a team. Of course, there is a pack hierarchy, but when the dog is in
harness, the two are much closer to being equal members of the same team. I
say "almost" because I don't want to portray an unrealistic and maudlin view
of what a guide team is. Because we humans have the greater skill in
leadership and decision making, we will always (or should always) assume the
role of leader, even when working the dog. However, think of yourself as a
teacher, and remember that the dog is a dynamic, living creature that can
feel stress, pain, joy, etc. Julie, I know that you know this, and thinking
of a relationship in this way can help answer your question.
> Because we don't view dogs as tools, we therefore know we have an ethical
obligation to their well-being. Thus, I wouldn't ask my dog to work when
doing so causes him unhealthy stress. Of course, some level of stress is
necessary and healthy for learning and work, but there is a definite
curve--that is, the benefits of stress increase with stress only so far, and
then they start going the other way.
> We want our dogs to be happy and to enjoy their work; we don't want to
make them think that they are being forced to do anything against their
wills. They aren't slaves, they are companions, partners, and family
members--and if they aren't enjoying or taking pleasure from their work,
then I don't think one should continue pressing them to do it.
> Julie: as you know Monty best, you can best determine what is making him
happy and what is making him anxious or stressed. If he loves his normal
work, or seems to respond to it in a manner normal for him, then I would
guess that he still enjoys it. If you are noticing that this abnormal
behavior is only occurring when you participate in these conventions,
meetings, etc., then you could probably conclude that this amount of work is
too stressful to be enjoyable to him. Therefore, you can make other
arrangements for him when you need to travel.
> I want Bailey to enjoy his work--I know that there are probably days when
he doesn't enjoy it as much, or when he isn't as sharp as usual, but so long
as he enjoys it, and it isn't causing him undue stress, I will gladly give
him work to do. I know you will make the best decision, as you have far more
experience with dogs than I do. I do hope that Monty continues to work well
and happily for many more years.
> Sincerely,
> Robert Hooper
> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
> The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of 
> Neuroscience
> 572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
> Columbus, Ohio 43202
> (740) 856-8195
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
>
> Thanks!  Those are reactions to stress that I wouldn't have thought of.
> It makes sense though.  I like to go to bed early when I've had a rough
day.
>
> I think it's important, especially for the new handlers, to recognize
stress/anxiety at it's first signs.  then the situation can be managed or
extra encouragement provided to the dog before the problem escalates into a
huge ordeal.  I think knowing when your dog has had enough and what to do
about it is very important stuff.
> Do the schools provide a seminar or something on noticing stress signals
from you dog?  What about how to calm a stressed dog?
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 11/12/2012 11:35 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>> Sometimes, if we're away at a festival or convention, and Ben has 
>> worked from morning to night for a couple days, I can tell that he's 
>> wants a break.  If we're out late, he starts looking toward the door, 
>> or turning forcefully towards our room.
>> During class at TSE, on the weekend before the third week, he just 
>> shut down.  He wouldn't get up when I called him.  He tried to crawl 
>> under the bed and hide when I picked up his leash.  It was very 
>> upsetting.  But I learned then that his reaction to stress is to 
>> sleep.  If I let him rest, leave him in peace for a while, he's back to
his usual self.
>> Tracy
>>> I'm wondering how your dog's show that they are stressed and how 
>>> much is too much?
>>>
>>> a bit of background...a few months ago I went to an all day meeting 
>>> out of town.  This involved about 8 hours of car travel there, an 
>>> overnight hotel stay, the all day meeting, another hotel stay and 
>>> the car ride home.  Monty has done all of these sorts of things before
and since.
>>> Before this weekend he showed few signs of stress and they were minor.
>>> However for some reason still unknown to me Monty had a tough time 
>>> this particular weekend.  His signs of stress included: looking at 
>>> everything incessantly, startling at noises, lip licking, difficulty 
>>> relaxing  at relief breaks, shaking and pulling like a crazed maniac in
harness.
>>>
>>> For me his signs of stress were pretty high.  If he had continued at 
>>> that level I would have stopped working him.  We have struggled off 
>>> and on for the past few months with smaller episodes of stress/anxiety.
>>> Overall things have improved dramatically.  Occasionally he will do 
>>> the lip licking and the looking at everything, but he's not at a 
>>> level that I feel is risky to his or my health or  safety.
>>>
>>> Recent messages to the list and my own situation caused me to think 
>>> about and ask the questions: How much is too much?  What would cause 
>>> you to quit working a dog completely? What would cause you to quit 
>>> working a dog in a particular situation?
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
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